Bookmakers and Planning (Haringey)

Debate between Tessa Munt and Robert Neill

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Robert Neill]

Two or perhaps three points arise. I was interested in the right hon. Gentleman’s observation that his local council thinks it would take years to produce the policy for an article 4 direction. I can see nothing on the face of the system that should require such a long period. Secondly, there is compensation. We must have a rule that applies to all article 4 directions because such a direction is—justifiably or otherwise—an interference or at least a restriction on the proprietary rights of the owner of the property. It limits what the owner can do with that property, which can affect its value, so it is reasonable and proportionate that there should be compensation. We cannot say that that should be any different for an article 4 direction that applies to only one type of use as opposed to another. That would be neither just nor proportionate.

A case can be made, but various people will have different value judgments about the social, moral, ethical or economic worth of certain types of business uses. The use classes order, however, deals with land uses rather than making value judgments about certain types of business uses.

[Tessa Munt]

On a pier, for example, there is often a discrete area where people might expect to see such activity taking place. I assume that piers will not fall within the general conditions relating to high streets and town centres to which the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) and I have referred.

[Robert Neill]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point, and also the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay. We must accept that the planning system is not intended to deal with all issues of social contention to which value judgments apply. There is a separate licensing system which, to some degree, handles such matters as well, but the planning system, and in particular the use classes order, may not be the best vehicle to deal with what is a legitimate issue of social debate: the worth or otherwise of certain legal activities. That is why I think there is a difficulty in the right hon. Gentleman’s proposition about a sui generis use class order. I accept that some of his points have force, and I accept that his concerns and those of his constituents are genuine. There are tensions in cases such as this, and the face of a high street can change if one particular use comes to dominate. However, as I have said, we cannot expect the planning system to be capable of solving all community issues. It is necessary to find a balance.

We have examined the position, and while I accept that in some cases difficulties can arise, I do not think it necessary to consider whether a national approach would be proportionate when there is no evidence to suggest that the proliferation of betting shops is a widespread problem that requires national legislation. There is also no evidence to suggest that banks are withdrawing from high streets because of betting shops, although they may be doing so for other reasons.

[Tessa Munt]

I beg to differ, given the quantity of casework with which I deal involving increasingly younger groups of people who have to search for help from the citizens advice bureau and various Christian organisations —I met representatives of one in Cheddar, in my constituency, on Saturday—because of disproportionate amounts of debt that originated from gambling.

[Robert Neill]

I am not suggesting that that is not an issue, but it is necessary to establish whether the planning law or the licensing regime is appropriate. My colleagues in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport have expressed willingness to monitor the extent to which the number and concentration of betting shops have changed since the Gambling Act 2005 came into force, and to establish whether there is a causal link between undesirable social impacts and any proliferation. They will continue to work with local authorities to that end.

Finally, a localism Bill will give local authorities more discretion in regard to the way in which they reflect local need in the planning process. Before too long, we will present proposals relating both to the Bill and to associated planning reforms. I do not suggest that that will automatically provide a silver bullet either, but we will keep these matters under review.