Pension Schemes Bill

Debate between Steve Darling and Debbie Abrahams

Consideration of Lords amendments
Wednesday 15th April 2026 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I must say that I am slightly surprised by the shadow Minister’s speech. I understand that Pensions UK agrees with the asset allocation, and has welcomed the change that has been announced, which is in line with the amounts prescribed in the Mansion House accord. The accusations about the Government stealing pensioners’ money are just scaremongering. [Interruption.] If my hon. Friend the Minister wishes to intervene to point out how ludicrous that is, I am happy to give way to him. This is dangerous scaremongering, and given that the last Government presided over a doubling of pensioner poverty, they should be ashamed of themselves.

I hope that, in his closing remarks, my hon. Friend will make clear where the UK stands on pension providers’ investments in UK assets. It seems that we are quite low in the rankings. Like Canada and Norway, I believe, we are in the 5% range, whereas Sweden and Switzerland are investing 10% in their countries’ investable assets. At the high end, Australia, Hong Kong and Japan are investing 20% or more. [Interruption.] I think it is my turn to speak. Perhaps we should reflect on how we are disadvantaged by that. I will support the Government today, but I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister can clarify those points.

It will not surprise my hon. Friend to hear that I want to briefly mention pre-1997 indexation. I know that it is not covered by the amendments that have been selected today, but it was debated in the other place. I know that he has already done a huge amount on providing indexation, but members of the financial assistance scheme are a very elderly group; they were particularly disadvantaged by the changes that were introduced, and there are fewer and fewer of them. I know it is difficult, given the appalling financial circumstances that this Government inherited and the difficulties that we face internationally, but I hope that when opportunity allows it, my hon. Friend will do the right thing by those FAS members.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

For many people, a pension is their second largest investment, after their home, but we must bear in mind that many others can only dream of having a private pension, as they face the challenges of the cost of living crisis. We Liberal Democrats want to make sure that pensions work effectively for those who invest in them, and there is much to be welcomed in the Bill.

I want to share a personal reflection with the House. My father, who was a lorry driver, feared poverty in his pensionable age, and saved massively because he had seen that poverty with his own father, but sadly he was perhaps not as financially literate as some other people. He kept his savings in shares; then the stock market crashed in 2008, and his savings for his pension were virtually wiped out. With today’s greater safeguards, that might not have happened; there might not have been the mis-selling that he felt had taken place, or the poor advice that he received from advisers. In that regard, the Bill takes significant steps in the right direction.

We Liberal Democrats, however, want to see our economy working well, and that means a lack of state interference, in the form of direction of investment. It is right that the state should encourage investors, suggest where they should go, and have appropriate schemes to guide them, but the idea of direction is anathema to us. We have repeatedly seen what is almost a nervous twitch, whether through the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Act 2025 or the introduction of facial ID on our streets, as the Government give more and more powers to Ministers, and that disturbs us. We Liberal Democrats plan to vote against the Government amendments relating to Lords amendments 1 and 15 and specifically to mandation, because mandation is the dead hand of Government on growth, particularly when it comes to people’s pensions, and it goes against our free-economy approach.

The Minister may be a reasonable individual—who knows?—but we have spent many hours on this, and the clock is ticking for the Government. In two or three years’ time, we may have a new Government, and we need only look at the other side of the Atlantic to see what democracy can throw up. We could be giving a future Government whose colour we do not know a challenging approach to mandation. Any reassurances that the Minister gives would not be worth the candle then. We fear that going ahead with mandation would be feckless, and dangerous for our pensioners.

Another area, which I know my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones) will touch on later, is pension scandals. The Government missed an opportunity to address pension scandals as part of this behemoth of a Bill, but Lords amendment 78, which they are sadly opposing, applies to the AEA Technology pensioners. That is a small step in the right direction to address the injustice that these pensioners have suffered. I remind the House that the Public Accounts Committee drew on a report by the National Audit Office that highlighted that civil servants were poorly advised by the Government on transferring the scheme to the private sector. Many of the AEAT pensioners have significantly lost out financially. I call on the Government to reflect on that and to take a small step in the right direction. We will vote against the Government motion to disagree to Lords amendment 78.

International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Debate between Steve Darling and Debbie Abrahams

Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

I highlight in particular the good work of those at the National Federation of the Blind, who were on the estate today campaigning on floating bus stops. Does the hon. Member agree that the Government need to ban floating bus stops?

[Debbie Abrahams]

The hon. Member—a fellow member of the Work and Pensions Committee—makes a good point. I am sorry that I was unable to attend that event myself, but I will certainly give that matter some consideration, and I hope that the Government will, too.

More than 16 million people in the UK have a disability—nearly one in four of us—and nearly half of all disabilities are acquired during a person’s lifetime. In recognition of that, in 2009 the UK not only became a signatory to the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, which includes 40 articles ranging from education and work and employment to the right to life, but enshrined disability as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act 2010. We should be proud that we as a country have adopted that, but now it is about how we put it into practice, because we have unfortunately gone backwards in many ways.

Despite the important moves that the then Government had undertaken, the austerity brought in by the coalition Government in 2010, and amplified by the Conservative Government in 2015, not only restricted financial and other state support for disabled people—adding further challenges to their lives—but created a culture of fear, particularly for those reliant on social security support who were unable to work. All too often, disabled people were treated as workshy, with the shirker-scrounger narrative perpetuated in policy and practice and, unfortunately, also in our media.