National Insurance Contributions (Increase of Thresholds) Bill

Stephen Timms Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 24th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

I would say two things. First, there is a raft of measures in place in the package announced yesterday precisely determined to help people on the lowest incomes, including, notably, the doubling of the household support fund to £1 billion, the action that we have already taken in cutting the universal credit taper rate, and the biggest cut that we have ever made to fuel duty. These are all things we have done, on top of the energy price package announced in February, that are designed to help people on the lowest incomes. Secondly, I hold the office of Chief Secretary, and I remember the Labour predecessor who left the note saying that there is no money left. I do not want to be in a position where I hand over a note to any successor of mine saying that there is an equivalent situation.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Clarke]

I give way to another predecessor.

[Stephen Timms]

It has been reported overnight that people on universal credit will see only about half of the gain from the measure that the Minister is bringing forward compared with those who are not on universal credit because the portion of people’s income that will not now be subject to 12% national insurance will instead be subject to the universal credit taper at 55%. Is that assessment correct?

[Mr Clarke]

We are determined to help people on universal credit to keep more of what they earn. I have not seen the assessment to which the right hon. Gentleman alludes, but I will look at it. It is certainly our ambition to keep bringing down the taper rate so that people get to keep more of what they earn. In that regard, I will certainly look at the analysis to which he directs me.

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[Mr Clarke]

Indeed, I absolutely do recognise what my hon. Friend says. The IFS has described raising the NICs threshold as

“the best way to help low and middle earners through the tax system”,

so he is absolutely right in what he says.

[Stephen Timms]

Mike Brewer, who used to be with the Institute for Fiscal Studies, has said this morning about the value of the £330 figure to the average employee:

“If you are getting UC, then you lose 55% of that to a reduced UC award.”

I think that is a major issue for the House in evaluating the measure that the Chief Secretary is bringing forward. Could he please urgently clarify for us whether that is indeed the case?

[Mr Clarke]

As I said in response to the right hon. Gentleman’s earlier remark, I will of course look at what he is saying. I recognise fully that we want to make sure that we allow people to keep as much as possible of what they earn, and it is our ambition to keep reducing the tax burden on the lowest earners, including through action on the taper rate.

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[Mr Clarke]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. She is a fantastic champion for Hastings and Rye, which I recognise is a part of the south-east that perfectly demonstrates that communities face very significant challenges in all parts of the United Kingdom. Sometimes the levelling up question is seen as the north and the midlands against the south, but her constituency is a very good demonstration of why communities in the south-east also need support. She is absolutely right in what she says. This is a Government with a strong track record of delivering for people who need the most help. It is worth noting in that regard that, as a result of the Bill, over 2 million people will be taken out of paying class 1 and class 4 NICs and the health and social care levy altogether, including, of course, in Hastings and Rye.

[Stephen Timms]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Clarke]

I should make some further progress, I think.

The Government recognise that implementing the Bill is a big change for many employers and payroll software providers, so I want to add a few words about the timeline for when we are implementing the changes. We believe that the date in early July strikes the appropriate balance between ensuring—this speaks to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart)—that people benefit from the increase as soon as possible, while giving employers and payroll software providers time to update and test their systems so that the change can be delivered safely. That will avoid millions of taxpayers having to make manual claims for refunds at the end of the tax year and employers from having to make major payroll corrections. Clearly, that is a situation we want to avoid.

The Government are also acutely aware of the huge pressures faced by those working for themselves but earning low amounts as a result of the rising cost of living. To support that group, the Bill gives the Treasury a power to lay an affirmative statutory instrument. It will mean that from April those with profits between £6,725 and £11,908 will not pay class 2 NICs. That will rise to £12,570 from April 2023. The measure will benefit half a million self-employed people, saving them up to £165 a year. As I just mentioned, that group will still be able to receive NIC credits, just as they have done in the past.

[Mr Clarke]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this issue. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury will be replying to the later stages of the Bill’s passage and will be able to provide direct confirmation that HMRC is focused on that issue. It is critical that HMRC plays its full role in delivering the measures as seamlessly as possible, and I know that it will.

[Stephen Timms]

Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury give way?

[Mr Clarke]

I will, I will, I will.

[Stephen Timms]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and I apologise for intervening once again. He has made it clear that he is not able to answer the question about the effect of this measure on people claiming universal credit. Can he commit the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to giving us an answer on that point before the end of the debate? It is an important issue for the House to take into account when determining its decision on this measure.

[Mr Clarke]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that point. My right hon. and learned Friend the Financial Secretary will do her best to provide an answer based on the information that our officials can provide. It is important, obviously, that we answer questions correctly. It is worth noting that the universal credit taper rate has been reduced from 63% to 55% and the universal credit work allowance has been increased by £500 a year to help make work pay. That is a tax cut for the lowest paid in society worth around £1.9 billion in the financial year that is just about to begin. It means that 1.7 million households will on average keep around an extra £1,000. We will do our best to respond to the specific question that the right hon. Gentleman raises.

The effect on an individual’s ability to access contributory benefits and to build up state pension entitlement will be unaffected as a result of the changes to class 2 NICs. Taken together with the increase in the primary threshold and the lower profits limit, we will meet in full our commitment to ensure that the first £12,500 an individual earns is free of tax, clearly illustrating that this is a Government who make good on their promises to the people of this country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Frazer]

I am going to carry on, because there are a lot of points to which I would like to respond and I have limited time.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) made a very powerful speech about freedom, recognising the impact of global challenges. He mentioned the armed forces, and I would like to reassure him that last year’s integrated review was accompanied by the largest cash increase in the defence budget since the cold war, with an additional £24 billion.

The hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) asked why the Chancellor is not using his £30 billion headroom. I would like to point out that the OBR has said that there is “unusually high uncertainty” in relation to the outlook, and the OBR has also said that the headroom the Chancellor has kept is the same as, or indeed less, than that of previous Chancellors. That is important because, if there is a 1.3% increase in interest rates, that will totally wipe out the headroom the Chancellor has given himself. We are already looking at £83 billion being paid in interest next year. Those of us on the Government Benches think we need to be fiscally responsible in the way we deal with our taxpayers’ money.

The hon. Member also said that to increase the national insurance contributions threshold as we are doing was not the right way to go. I would like to point out that Martin Lewis has said on Twitter:

“This is the big one. Increasing the National Insurance threshold so it now matches Income tax from July.”

He said various other things, and then he said, “Good call”.

My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Jacob Young) recognised that there are no easy choices. He reminded us of Labour’s record on the economy, which reminded me that the shadow Chancellor had put forward a total of £170 billion of uncosted spending proposals just by September last year, and she has refused to rule out hiking up income taxes.

[Stephen Timms]

The Minister mentioned Martin Lewis, and I wonder if she could provide the information that the Chief Secretary said she might be able to give in winding up this debate about the effect of this national insurance measure on people claiming universal credit. Martin Lewis has made the point that they will lose 55% of the £330 a year benefit. Will she confirm if that is correct?

[Lucy Frazer]

I was going to come back to that point, but I am very happy to deal with it now. My right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary is right that an individual may be affected by the taper, but will be better off overall as a result of the change. If they are earning below the work allowance, they will get the full benefit. It is important to point out the changes we have already made for those on universal credit. As a result of those changes, 1.7 million households will benefit from the taper rate change, which is £1,000 of additional income for them.

The hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Ms Rimmer) talked about the energy crisis. She will know the measures we have already put in, including the £9 billion of further support, with the £350 that people will get over the course of this year. She mentioned businesses in her constituency, and I hope they will welcome the increase to the employment allowance that we have announced.

I am very pleased to hear how my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Paul Bristow), my almost constituency neighbour, is engaging with his constituents, and that the Oxcart pub welcomes our business rate cuts.

The hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) talked about poverty. I am very proud that, if we look at the past 10 years of this Government, there have been about 1.3 million fewer people in poverty. She also talked about pensioners, and this the Conservative Government have consistently supported pensioners. Through the triple lock, we have seen an increase in state pension of 25%—that would be £2,050—since 2011.

My hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Alexander Stafford) made a very passionate speech, rightly recognising the global macroeconomic position. He is absolutely right to talk about the importance of getting people into work, a point that was also made by other hon. Members. I am very pleased that he has held his first Rother Valley jobs fair, and we are getting people into work through the plan for jobs that the Chancellor has set out—whether through restart and kickstart or with the benefit of work coaches.

The hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) talked about low growth and low pay, but I wonder if she is aware that ours was the fastest growing economy in the G7 last year, according to the IMF. I wonder whether she heard the Chancellor’s statement in which he set out a tax plan that focuses on growth. It focuses on what we will do to support businesses in the way of capital, people and ideas. He has already highlighted that he is looking forward to cutting tax rates on businesses, so that they can further invest, in his autumn Budget.

A number of Members talked about how the OBR has said that the package only reverses

“around a sixth of the net tax rises”

that the Chancellor has announced overall. I just want to inform them that the tax plan comes on top of the almost £46 billion in tax cuts that the Government have introduced for this year and next. That includes the super deduction worth £25 billion across two years, business rates and VAT support worth £14.5 billion across two years, and fuel and alcohol duty freezes worth £4.5 billion across two years. These important tax cuts were not included in the OBR’s analysis, which just focuses on the final year of the forecast period.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (James Daly) was right to say that this is not the end of the journey for the Chancellor, a point also made by my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey), who mentioned that this is part of a broader package. The Chancellor has a plan to help families with the cost of living, creating the conditions for private sector-led growth and sharing the proceeds of growth fairly.

The right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) talked about the importance of helping those on low incomes. I absolutely agree with him that that is important, but we are doing it—whether through the universal credit taper rate, raising the national living wage, the 70% cut in taxes that we announced yesterday and are legislating for today, the £9 billion of energy support or increasing the generosity of the local housing allowance. All those measures will support people on low incomes. He made an interesting point about public sector pay, which I noted conflicted with a point the shadow Chancellor, the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), made on the radio this morning when she recognised that negotiations for public sector pay were independent decisions made by pay review boards.

The measures in the Bill will ensure that our national insurance system plays its part in relieving some of the challenges facing families right now as a result of the cost of living crisis. Of course, we have not introduced them lightly. We are conscious that in the next financial year we are forecast to spend £83 billion in debt interest, the highest figure on record. In addition, while the Bill represents an important part of the Chancellor’s tax plan, it is just one element of it.

Yesterday, the Chancellor also announced steps to create the right conditions to enable our businesses to grow, highlighting some potential tax-cutting options for businesses, investment and innovation. He announced action to help to ensure workers see more of their hard-earned cash and a pledge to reduce the basic rate of income from 20p in the pound to 19p in the pound before the end of the Parliament, representing the first such cut in 16 years. Furthermore, the Chancellor announced help for motorists through the biggest cut to fuel duty rates ever, while for the next five years homeowners in Great Britain who have materials such as solar panels, heat pumps or insulation installed will pay zero VAT. He doubled the household support fund, which allows local authorities to distribute financial help to the vulnerable, so it stands at £1 billion.

Help with the cost of living, extra support for the vulnerable, delivering on our pledge to reform the tax system and measures to make sure work really pays all comes on top of the £400 billion of support we provided to individuals and businesses during the pandemic and the £20 billion we have already pledged to help with the cost of living. Let no one say that this Government do not stand by the people of this country. The Bill is yet more clear evidence of how we are making good on our promise to support our citizens through challenging times. That is why I commend it to the House.