Great Lakes (Africa)

Debate between Stephen O'Brien and Anas Sarwar

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development (Mr Stephen O'Brien)]

I thank the hon. Member for Falkirk (Eric Joyce) for securing this debate and for giving me the opportunity to reply. I am glad that DFID has been chosen to reply, because it will give me a chance to cover some of the development issues. Much of what is relevant to the DRC is Foreign and Commonwealth Office business, but hopefully I will be able to cover both areas.

The hon. Members who have recently returned from their visit to the region will have had a rewarding and informative visit, as indeed I did when I went with the Minister with responsibility for Africa on a joint visit to the DRC. I went to Rwanda last year. Great challenges remain in all the areas that we visited. The overriding priority is to continue to bring sustainable peace and prosperity to the great lakes region.

There are also an enormous number of potential opportunities, but many of them are choked off, because the conditions for them to be usefully explored are simply not yet in place. Much of the potential is still largely untapped. Let me address the points that have been raised by setting them in the appropriate context. I want to take this opportunity to explain how her Majesty’s Government, through DFID in particular, are trying to help to unlock the potential in the DRC and the great lakes region.

The DRC is still recovering from the shock of Africa’s first inter-state war in the modern age, which was laid on top of decades of corruption and misrule. Recovery is hampered by continuing lawlessness and armed violence, particularly in the east. The country is physically disconnected, and politically highly disjointed. The hon. Members for Falkirk and for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) have mentioned that the elections must be seriously monitored. That monitoring process will be welcome, because it will encourage independent verifiability At the same time, we must work with civil society organisations to enable them to use their voice and express the various views across the DRC. We all welcome the broad sentiments that were expressed. We hope that the elections go well, and we will do everything that we can to assist the country at this time. It is important for the credibility of the Government that the elections go well. At the same time, though, we must not rush to judgment, and we must enable the process to go through rather than assuming the worst.

The DRC has some of the worst social indicators in the world, and it is far from achieving any of the millennium development goals, which is one of the questions that I have been asked. Violence against women is endemic and horrifying. The country is second to the bottom of the “doing business” league table. Although growth has been sustained through the past decade, the public purse is still far too small to meet basic needs, so there may well be a very small tax take on taxable transactions of value even under normal regulatory conditions. Clearly, there is a lot of work to be done there.

We must all recognise that the MDGs are way off track. That is true whether we consider the number of children being enrolled at school or the number of girls staying on at school. All of us who care about development issues need to consider how we can meet the MDGs and how the UK, through DFID, can make a transformative difference and help to deliver on those MDGs, The DRC has to be our main focus, which is something that we are determined to do.

There are signs of hope, and our new country programme in the DRC aims to build on those signs. Macro-economic management has improved, which led to international debt relief being granted last year, as I am sure hon. Members know. In addition, levels of violence are slowly dropping, although the amount of violence in the DRC is still extremely high as measured against all comparators. Nevertheless, we must recognise that there has at least been progress in terms of the trend rate. And the DRC Government are showing a greater will—the practice is a long way behind, but there is a greater will—to get the minerals sector under control. I do not mean “control” along the lines of one unfortunate recent incident, which actually amounted to sequestration. What I mean by “control” is appropriate regulation, whereby there is an appropriate opportunity for businesses to take a risk in a predictable environment and for there to be a yield to the country’s exchequer under a system of democratic and transparent accountability, which will then be used for the benefit of the people of the DRC rather than to reward any form of elite.

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Minister is sick of the sight of me, after he spent two hours in front of the Select Committee on International Development this morning discussing this very region and specifically Burundi. I want to make a point about mineral extraction. As he knows, members of the International Development Committee have recently returned from visiting the DRC and one of the most shocking statistics that we heard while we were there is that $400 million of gold is extracted each month in the DRC, but only $28,000 is paid in tax each month for that gold. What is his Department doing to try to get greater transparency and hopefully some binding agreements along the lines of the extractive industries transparency initiative and the Dodd-Frank Act?

[Mr O'Brien]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right to make that observation. There are various estimates about the DRC, but what he has just said is broadly what we all understand to be the case. Part of the answer lies with what the hon. Member for Falkirk hinted at earlier. He suggested that the lack of confidence among foreign direct investors—confidence they can take the risk of going into the DRC and using their world-class skills to extract the unique assets that the DRC is particularly blessed with—means that 80% or more of all the gold that is mined in the DRC is extracted by artisan extraction, as is the case with the other valuable minerals found in the DRC that are sought on world markets. Of course, that makes it almost impossible to capture the revenue from that activity within any kind of regulatory environment.

That is why we are putting such emphasis in the design of the DFID programme on considering what will create the conditions for private sector development. By that, I mean not just foreign direct investment, which is important, but measures that will help regional economic integration. That economic integration is important not only in the east of the region, which we discussed extensively in the International Development Committee this morning, but across the various corridors in the region, particularly the north-south corridor that includes the copper belt in Zambia and the Katanga region of the DRC. That corridor will be vital for the future of many countries in southern and eastern Africa as trade passes up and down it.

The hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) referred to the extractive industries transparency initiative. As he knows, we are a strong supporter of that initiative for resource-rich countries. It is absolutely the right way to ensure that, as part of the measures to build confidence and credibility, people are genuine in both countries—both the UK and the country from which the materials are being extracted—and companies must sign up to it. Both the hon. Gentleman and I welcome the DRC’s efforts fully to implement the EITI.

On the Dodd-Frank issue, I hope that the hon. Gentleman knows that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor made it clear at the G20 Finance Ministers meeting in February that the British Government support the development of new international rules that, to some degree, are prompted by the Dodd-Frank Act in the US. Such rules would require oil, gas and mining companies to report payments that they make to Governments. The UK seeks to make progress on that issue in both the G20 and, very importantly, within the EU. This process will work if we move together, so that both a combined, common purpose and combined, common standards and values are reflected in the way those reporting mechanisms are developed.

While I am discussing minerals, perhaps I should talk about PROMINES, which the hon. Member for Falkirk referred to. As he knows, the British Government are co-funding that project with the World Bank, and I was grateful for his complimentary remarks about it. It is a major minerals sector reform programme. A PROMINES agreement is about to be signed with the DRC Government, and it will tighten up regulation in the DRC’s minerals sector. Obviously, we hope that it will improve conditions for mine workers and increase tax revenues from mining, which is another issue that we have discussed. That agreement has been cleared by the World Bank’s executive board, and we expect the DRC Government to sign it within the next few weeks. That is progress.

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not comment on the particular case of First Quantum Minerals, because it is the subject of an ongoing dispute.

In recent years, we have gathered a lot of evidence about how to work effectively in war-torn and fragile states, and the key issue is ensuring that we learn from that evidence. Learning from such evidence, alongside a renewed emphasis on results and value for money, has helped us to develop the new country programme that we have now put in place for the DRC. Through that programme, we believe that we can deliver fantastic results in what is, by any test, one of the world’s most difficult aid environments. We believe that we can combine major improvements in basic services, which are much needed, with new efforts to promote trade and investment and, of course, new efforts to create wealth. If we can find ways to create wealth for the broader population, that would be the biggest reliever of poverty.

Over the four-year period of the spending review, we have a total aid budget for the DRC. For the two inner years of that four-year period, we have settled on a budget of about £147 million and £165 million respectively. We will review the progress that is made in the DRC, because we want to ensure that milestones are being identified and that we are achieving results. If progress is made, we have signalled that we want to have a total aid budget for the DRC over the four-year period of about £790 million. That would obviously mean a significant increase in the two outer years of that four-year period.

Without wanting in any sense to undo the absolutely essential element of being in a partnership with the DRC Government in this work, the modalities of delivery have to take place. Often that means that we are unable to use Government systems—for no other reason than that the Government systems do not exist. We must ensure that there is a sense of “earned increase” because progress has been banked and secured, because it is real and sustainable, because it is pro-poor and because it does not benefit those for whom aid might be regarded as being unjustified.

That aid programme will allow us to address the point that was made very forcefully by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal) about women in the DRC who are subject to appalling violence, including sexual violence such as rape and female genital mutilation, and who lack access to economic opportunities, including any form of land registration, which would give them the incentive to move into the economic sphere. We hope that we learn the lessons about all those factors.

Ivory Coast (Humanitarian Situation)

Debate between Stephen O'Brien and Anas Sarwar

Thursday 31st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr O’Brien]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue. We believe that about 80 British citizens would be involved, and there are, indeed, contingency plans in place for their safe return if that becomes necessary.

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

I welcome the Government’s actions in providing humanitarian assistance to the region. Comparisons will inevitably be drawn with the situation in Libya. What assessment has been made of the number of civilian lives that have been lost in Ivory Coast, and what efforts are we and our international partners making to ensure we protect civilians from another brutal leader refusing to leave?

[Mr O'Brien]

The latest information we have is that about 500 civilians have so far lost their lives in Côte d’Ivoire, but that is very much an estimate—as the hon. Gentleman can imagine, reliable information is extremely hard to come by. All possible political and diplomatic processes are under way, and have been under way—we have been deeply engaged in trying to help and co-ordinate efforts to support that since the leadership crisis first arose in December. It is vital that we work down that track. Of course we do not want to have to take other measures, and it is extremely helpful that the UN Security Council passed resolution 1975 last night.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Stephen O'Brien and Anas Sarwar

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr O'Brien]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out that important disparity. The UK Government recently announced the framework for results on reproductive, maternal and neonatal health, which directly seeks to address how that disparity can be narrowed. I have seen for myself in northern Nigeria how DFID supports midwifery services, with a scheme to train 200 midwives who are then posted to rural facilities, which is vital to ensure that the disparity is addressed.

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

I am proud to support Save the Children’s “No child born to die” campaign, which seeks to make more life-saving vaccines available to the world’s poorest and most vulnerable children. The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation summit is to take place in the UK later this year, and Save the Children is lobbying for the Prime Minister to represent the UK at that summit. What steps will the Minister to take to make sure that the Government are represented at the highest level?