European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Wednesday 9th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

An extension of article 50 is permitted under that article of the treaty—the hon. Gentleman is right to that extent. But of course such an extension has to be by unanimous consent of both the departing member state and all existing member states. What I am quite clear about in my own mind is that regardless of what opinions were expressed here, or by this or any other British Government, the EU27 are not interested in some sort of extension of article 50. They want this process brought to an orderly conclusion because they have other things, like a future budgetary process, that they need to get on with and think about after the United Kingdom’s departure.

[Stephen Gethins]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I will give way once more and then I want to make progress.

[Stephen Gethins]

I respect the way the Minister is going about this, and his generosity. On the article 50 extension—which is critical, regardless of what he thinks—achieving what we all want to achieve by 29 March, and having a proper discussion and getting solutions in place, will be very, very difficult. Has he at least explored the possibility of an article 50 extension with the 27 member states?

[Mr Lidington]

I have had no discussions with the Commission or with the Council about that. The Prime Minister has made the Government’s position very clear on this particular point.

Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland: Border Arrangements

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

With respect to my right hon. and learned Friend, I do not think that there is a need for any misunderstanding about what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was saying. On the date when we leave the European Union, the treaties will, in the words of article 50, cease to apply to the United Kingdom. The effect of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, which is currently before the House of Lords, is that the direct effect and primacy of European Union law in the United Kingdom will be extinguished. We are now seeking an agreement, which will take the form of a treaty governed by international law, between the United Kingdom and the continuing entity of the European Union. That is what we are seeking to do, and the Prime Minister has said that she will talk about that in more detail on Friday.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

We know from the Government’s leaked figures that they are prepared to play fast and loose with jobs and the economy in order to try to prevent another Tory civil war, and there is concern that they might do the same thing in relation to the Good Friday peace process to prevent a Tory civil war. Will the Minister tell us whether it is wrong to see the Foreign Secretary’s task as maintaining no border? Will he also tell us what the impact on the border will be if the implementation period is based on World Trade Organisation principles? Finally, it is always good to see the Minister here, but I have to tell him that, although I enjoy a game of “Where’s Wally” as much as the next person, it is frankly astonishing that the Foreign Secretary is not here.

[Mr Lidington]

The entire Government are committed to there being no border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, or between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Both those elements were central to the December joint report, and they are both firm commitments of the entire United Kingdom Cabinet and the Government. The hon. Gentleman’s strictures about the Government’s approach to jobs and employment stand somewhat in contrast to the reality, which is that employment is at a record high in the United Kingdom at the moment and unemployment is at a 40-year low.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Report stage: First Day: House of Commons
Tuesday 16th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gethins]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Let me make these points. What accountability is there on the promises that were made during the EU referendum? The Secretary of State for Scotland told us that we would have a “powers bonanza”, but there has been nothing. The Environment Secretary said that we would get powers over immigration, but there has been no accountability over that. The Foreign Secretary said that there would be £350 million for the NHS, and quite remarkably, he doubled down on that last night. No shame whatever. Is it any wonder that the latest NatCen survey shows that, rather than 59% of people in Scotland thinking that the Government are handling this badly, the figure has shot up to 67%? The hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) mentioned this earlier.

Let us compare that to the attitude of the Scottish Government on this. The amendments that have gone down have been drafted by their working with colleagues from across this House and across the Administrations. We published our amendments in due time. Even yesterday, the Scottish Government used the economists that they have at their disposal to publish—not keep secret—their analysis of Scotland’s place in Europe. It showed an 8.5% loss in GDP, equating to £2,500 for every person in Scotland, through losing the value of EU nationals. Leaving the single market will be devastating. On this, I make a gentle point to our Labour colleagues, many of whom have stuck out their neck on the single market. This Government are on the ropes and we could have a majority that could achieve a sensible outcome. I urge my colleagues on the Labour Benches to reconsider some of their options on this. We can stay in the single market.

In conclusion, compromises can be reached but we must see the amendments. All of this is happening even though we were told that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote no. Two thousand years ago, the first Scot in recorded history, Calgacus, was said to have told his followers about the Romans:

“They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the…name of ‘empire’.”

As we leave the European Union, we have nothing on clause 11, nothing on the rights of EU citizens, nothing about what will happen to our trade, and nothing on the opportunities for young people. That leads me to conclude that the only plan that the Brexiteers have is to create a desert and call it Brexit.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr David Lidington)]

The debate has been lively and has ranged quite widely over various aspects of the impact of this country’s withdrawal from the European Union on the devolution settlements. I therefore want to make it clear from the start that the Government’s expectation and intention are that the return of competences from the European Union will result in a very significant addition to the powers exercised in future by the devolved Administrations on the bases set out in their respective devolution statutes. However, we have to go about this complex task in the right way for the sake of individuals, families and businesses in every part of the United Kingdom, because the devolution settlements were negotiated, debated and enacted on the basis of certain competences being known to be within the power of the European Union and, on the quite reasonable assumption at the time that the devolution statutes went through this House, that that would continue to be the situation.

Government Referendum Leaflet

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Monday 11th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The Government would be abrogating our responsibility to the electorate were we to decline to communicate our views and the reasons for our views. There is an equal obligation on those championing a British exit from the European Union to spell out both the arguments to which my right hon. and learned Friend refers, and, critically, the future relationship they are seeking with the European Union. Having taken part in many debates and exchanges on the subject of the European Union in the past few years, I have found that there are almost as many visions for the future relationship of the United Kingdom with the European Union when outside it as there are advocates of a British exit.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

The Minister will be aware that the Prime Minister has said the debate has become “abrasive” and “difficult”—and that is just around his own Cabinet table. The Minister will also be aware of a so-called unity reshuffle that looks set to deliver the least unity in a Government in recent times. What is more—this is quite worrying—the Prime Minister has said that the work of Government could suffer. Will the Minister set out which areas might suffer?

If Members on the SNP Benches can offer a bit of advice, it is that trust will be important—after all, the Scottish Government enjoy the highest trust levels in Europe, and they are significantly higher than those of the UK Government—so does the Minister agree that there is a need to follow the gold standard set by the Scottish independence referendum and to avoid “Project Fear”?

[Mr Lidington]

What the leaflet we are dealing with this afternoon does is explain the Government’s case in plain English. It can readily be understood by people who have not studied every detail of European Union treaties for the past several years. It explains that in clear language, but it is not over-egging the pudding. It is phrased and the argument is expressed in an extremely sober manner, and I hope people will find that argument persuasive.

UK’s Relationship with the EU

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

Does the Minister agree with me and Members from every party in the House—including the Conservative party—that a June referendum would be disrespectful, and that a quick referendum would create a missed opportunity for a full, comprehensive debate on the UK’s membership of the EU, and the best way to keep us in the European Union?

[Mr Lidington]

I always take seriously the need for fairness for people in all parts of the United Kingdom when it comes to setting the referendum date. As I said earlier, we listened closely and took on board the comments made by the Scottish National party’s official foreign affairs spokesman, who said that there should be a six-week interval between the Scottish elections and any referendum. No decision has yet been, or can be, taken, at least pending the February European Council. Only then can we decide what date to nominate, and what statutory instrument to bring forward to the House.

Europe: Renegotiation

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The answer to my right hon. and learned Friend’s second point is certainly yes, the interests of British people are always at the heart of this Government’s thinking about any area of policy, and we will certainly continue to treat the national, economic and security interests of the UK as the core objective of every aspect of this European negotiation.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

I thank the Minister for making an oral statement to the House and for forward sight of his statement.

What a difference a year makes: just last year Scots were being told that if we voted yes to independence we would be getting chucked out of the EU, and now, frankly, we could not be closer to the exit.

The Minister said earlier that there would be a process of formal negotiation with the Europeans. Will he make a commitment to us today to consult the devolved Administrations as a formal part of that negotiation? He also said, quoting the Dutch:

“European where necessary, national where possible.”

Will that include devolving the powers, where appropriate, to the devolved Administrations? Finally, will the Minister tell us what on Scotland’s agenda for reform has been included in this statement today?

[Mr Lidington]

Of course, we were voting to give additional devolved powers to Scotland only yesterday in this House. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I spoke to Minister Fiona Hyslop this morning, and the question of the reform and renegotiation is now on the agenda as the first item at every meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee on Europe which I chair and which includes Ministers from all the devolved Administrations. I am visiting Edinburgh tomorrow when I will have further conversations with the Scottish Government of the type the hon. Gentleman urges upon me, and as I said to Ms Hyslop this morning, I remain open to listen to the views of, and make sure the UK Government take full account of the interests of, all three devolved Administrations as we take this negotiation forward.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

If a decision to attempt to reach a consensus at Council happens to be timed to fall within those 28 days—I do not think we can assume that all EU business is going to stop for the last 28 days of our campaign—then of course, in those circumstances, the Government would want to make representations, including circulating the type of paper I have described. European Court of Justice judgments are handed down and advocates-general opinions are presented in a timetable that is not within our gift or influence. Again, the Government not only often wish to comment on such matters but to guide British business and other interest groups on what those judgments or recommendations actually mean. For example, had the recent case on European Central Bank clearances gone against us, there would have been an extremely urgent need to write to notify City institutions on the implications of that judgment for them, to avoid a risk of instability in the markets.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

To clarify a point the Minister made earlier, can he assure the House that under his proposals we will not, in the run-up to the referendum, see something like the vow that came out just before the Scottish independence referendum? Will he rule out that kind of thing?

[Mr Lidington]

From memory, I think the vow was a commitment by party leaders acting in a party political capacity, so that is a completely different issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Stephen Gethins and David Lidington

Tuesday 14th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We have given practical technical assistance to both Bulgaria and Romania—and, indeed, to a number of candidate countries wishing to join the EU in the future—to root out corruption and to support reform of the judiciary and the police system. I discussed these issues with the Bulgarian Foreign Minister when he came to London in June.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

22. The Minister will be aware that reform is a two-way process. Can he set out some areas where he thinks we should have greater co-operation with the European Union, not just those where there should be less co-operation?

[Mr Lidington]

Yes, we are very keen to see the European-wide single market extend to services much more fully than it does at the moment. At the moment, we have a pretty well functioning single market in goods, which works to the great benefit of British industry. It is services that will provide the future growth for us and other European countries. It is a woefully underdeveloped single market when it comes to services.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

T7. We have heard from the Foreign Secretary about the need for treaty change from the EU negotiations. Will fisheries be up for renegotiation?

[Mr Lidington]

Fisheries have already been the subject of a successful renegotiation, led for the UK by the fisheries Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice). That led to the scrapping of the obscene discarding policy for which British Governments have yearned for years, and the devolution of fishing to a more regional and local level. The hon. Gentleman should welcome that.