National Carers Week

Debate between Stephen Doughty and Caroline Dinenage

Thursday 8th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dame Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Respite care comes up time and again as one of the big asks for unpaid carers. They want to carry on doing the role they are doing. They deeply love the people they are caring for. They take a huge amount of personal responsibility and pride with the care they are giving, but they need that little bit of support. Around the time of covid, in particular, we saw many, many unpaid carers going on for months, years even, without the ability for any kind of respite. The figure he quotes is crucial: £162 billion a year is the value that unpaid carers are saving our health and care system. That is an incredible amount of money. It is like a whole separate, second NHS, saving that amount of money. The huge pressures placed on the other NHS we have result in delays for unpaid carers in obtaining the primary and secondary healthcare appointments that they need. The record demand for our social care services means that carers are not getting the support that they need.

I want to spend a little time exploring some of those challenges in more detail. Other Members across the House will add their own voices. As I noted earlier, many carers are struggling with poor mental and physical health. According to Carers UK research, one in five carers says that their physical health is bad or very bad, 30% suffer from poor mental health and over a quarter say that they often or always feel lonely. Carers provide many hours of support for the people they care for, but very few are able to take a break from their caring. That results in tiredness and, in some cases, exhaustion and burnout. As the hon. Member for Strangford said, worryingly, 41% of carers have not taken a break from their caring role in the last year. A carer called Anton told me about the strain that caring is placing on him:

“It is hard, often draining and mentally and emotionally painful work, bordering on damaging. Due to my responsibilities and the amount I am depended on, I am often anxious, feel hopeless and depressed.”

Carers are not getting the support that they need from our health and social care systems, as both systems are under intense and increasing pressure. Many carers have experienced delays in accessing healthcare appointments and services. One fifth of carers who request a GP appointment have to wait more than a month to see a doctor, and over a third have had to wait more than a year for specialist treatments or assessment. That causes additional stress and anxiety, and results in many feeling isolated or forgotten about.

This year, only a quarter of carers said that they had undertaken a carer’s assessment in England—a statutory right under the Care Act 2014. Of those who received an assessment, many were concerned that it did not lead to any improvements in the support provided to them. Could the Minister outline what she is doing to ensure that those carer assessments are not only conducted but conducted properly and that the outcomes are delivered? In fact, 39% of carers said that they did not even know what a care assessment was—that is the severity of the problem. A carer called Trevor told me:

“I get no support whatsoever. It has taken nearly 4 years to get a carer’s assessment from the Local Authorities which is now imminent. I have no expectations whatsoever.”

What is the Minister doing to communicate with local authorities to make sure that those important carer’s assessments take place? Debbie contacted me to tell me:

“I’ve had no support whatsoever. Support seems to consist of ticking a box to say I’m a carer but nothing more.”

It is just not good enough.

I want briefly to touch on the financial impact that caring can have. The cost of living means that carers currently face unprecedented demands on their finances. Concerningly, more than half of carers say that they are extremely worried about managing their monthly costs. A quarter told Carers UK that they are cutting back on essentials such as food or heating, and over three quarters said that the rising cost of living is the main challenge that they will face in the coming year. Many have been desperately trying to find ways of saving money, but that can be difficult because, quite often, the people they are caring for need life-saving care equipment that requires energy, or they need to ensure that the person they are caring for is kept warm. David told me about the financial impact that caring was having on him:

“I have been a full-time carer for my wife for over 10 years, and I’ve found that the money I get doesn’t even cover energy bills. It’s a constant struggle: all unpaid carers want is enough money to pay our bills and still have something left over to buy things when we need to. We are saving the country a lot of money by doing what we do and some recognition would be appreciated.”

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Lady for bringing forward this crucial debate. The other day, I had the pleasure of visiting Tŷ Hafan, the children’s hospice of Wales, in my constituency. I heard many similar stories to those she is reporting, about how people are struggling with the cost of living, particularly if they are having to run expensive medical equipment, given the associated energy bills. It is brilliant that Tŷ Hafan provides not only crucial respite for families and those they support directly, but support and advice on the cost of living.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage]

That is absolutely right. The Government have spoken about a social tariff for energy, but identifying who the carers are and how they can access that support is vital.

Gary told me about the financial struggles he has because of caring:

“After giving up a reasonable salaried job to care for my wife, we fell into severe financial hardship and were resorting to food banks. When the cost of living crisis happened, it was so bad I had to take up part-time taxi driving, which takes me away from my care role, in order to survive, but I can only earn so much due to the limits imposed or lose the carer’s allowance.”

That is adding additional stress and complexity to his life.

Supporting carers to stay in or return to paid work is essential. We want to ensure that carers can live a life free from poverty in older age, but 75% of carers who are working alongside their caring responsibilities are worried about juggling work and care. Increasing numbers of employers are recognising the importance of supporting carers in the workplace, and it is vital that they maintain flexibility so that people can continue to do their incredible juggling acts.

Nicola told me that she had to give up her career as an embryologist to care for her daughter, who has Angelman syndrome. She said:

“We have no family support, no help from the council and my daughter is awake for hours in the middle of the night, which means that we are unable to sleep and are completely exhausted. The only income I now receive is carer’s allowance. We solely rely on my partner’s income, which covers our bills. We have already moved to a cheaper house, but it is still extortionate as we live in Surrey and my partner has to commute into London daily.”

Lucy, who cares for her disabled son, who has cerebral palsy, told me:

“I have had to give up my job as a company director as his needs and required medical operations means I cannot keep a job any longer. I have gone from having a £40k+ job and am now claiming carer’s allowance.”

Finally, more needs to be done to support and help carers to recognise themselves as carers. Many are not doing so, which means they are missing out on the support they need. Research that the charities involved with Carers Week released on Monday found that 73% of people in the UK who are providing or have provided unpaid care in their lifetime—roughly 19 million people—have not identified themselves as carers. Research also shows that half of all carers take over a year to recognise that they are in a caring role, with over a third taking over three years to recognise themselves as carers.

That is particularly pertinent to young carers, who may not know that they are carers. In many cases, their situation can be misinterpreted. Schools can perceive young carers to be bad students because they are not paying attention, when in many cases they are just extremely tired and stressed by their caring responsibilities. Schools need to go much further to identify young carers in their midst and to support them.

In cases where a young person is supporting a parent with mental ill health, there is a stigma attached and they do not want to tell their friends. I remember meeting one young gentleman at a carers’ festival that is run every year, which is a wonderful way of supporting young carers to live life like normal young people and enjoy themselves. He told me that his mother had made many attempts to take her own life and that, as a very young child, he had to get used to phoning 999 for the ambulance to take his mum away and save her. He never told his school about this because of the stigma attached to it; he felt deeply isolated and ashamed. We need to double down on our efforts to ensure we identify young carers in schools.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Stephen Doughty and Caroline Dinenage

Thursday 10th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight this. We know that the vast majority of misinformation is harmful but legal. It is really important that we develop a comprehensive piece of legislation, working closely with civil society and the tech platforms, so that where disinformation is illegal or encourages illegal behaviours it can be dealt with, and so that we can address false narratives online and try to root out the content that is legal but harmful, particularly to children. With that in mind, we will be publishing the online harms response very shortly, and we plan to bring forward the legislation early next year.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Like many other Members, I have been sharing information about the excellent developments on the vaccines with my constituents on social media, but I have been deeply worried by some of the anti-vax nonsense I have seen in response. What is the Minister’s advice to my constituents when they see this information online? Should they simply report it to the social media companies and expect them to remove it—they have a pretty poor track record of doing that—or is there some way of feeding into the disinformation unit that she has described?

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise this. Anti-vaccination propaganda can be really harmful and can deter people from getting treatment that could save their life or the life of a loved one. That is why it is really important to bring it to the attention of the social media companies themselves. Last month, my colleague the Secretary of State, alongside the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, met the social media companies, which agreed to reduce the spread of harmful and misleading narratives, particularly around the potential covid-19 vaccine. We are holding them to account for this; it is vital that they get it right and that their work is transparent and effective.

Equal Pay and the Gender Pay Gap

Debate between Stephen Doughty and Caroline Dinenage

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities and Family Justice (Caroline Dinenage)]

It is a great pleasure to take part in the debate. I start by thanking the hon. Member for Ashfield (Gloria De Piero) for securing this important debate on equal pay and the gender pay gap. It has been a fantastic debate and we have had some excellent contributions from across the House and some outstanding maiden speeches. I have listened with great interest to all the points that were made. I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield and the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) for their kind words of welcome.

We all know that equal pay and the gender pay gap are entirely different but equally important. Discrimination is, sadly, just one of a number of factors behind the gender pay gap. Even if there was never a single incident in which a woman was paid less than a man for the same job, there would still be a gender pay gap. That is why this debate is so important, as it gives me the chance to remind the House how much progress we have made, and how this Government strive to continue to tackle all the causes of disparity between what men and women earn.

Hon. Members asked lots of questions in the debate today and made many specific points. The hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) said that she regretted that a debate on this subject was needed in this day and age—a sentiment we all share across the House.

I am proud that my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), who will be the first Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, was able to speak today. She speaks with great power and authority on these matters. She said that every woman has the right to a job that does not marginalise them because of their gender or penalise them because they have caring responsibilities, which I think we can all unite behind. She also mentioned the importance of flexible skilled working and asked about the progress on collecting data. The recent extension of the right to request flexible working means that more than 20 million employees will now have that right. We know that total requests just before the extension were running at about 182,000 a year, with about 144,000 agreed to. We will of course be monitoring the post-extension data.

The hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), who has long been a great champion of this important issue, spoke about the importance of tackling the pay gap nationally and internationally. She also talked about the devastating impact that violence against women and girls can have, both at home and overseas, on their ability to reach their full potential, both in the workplace and in the rest of their lives.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) made a fantastic maiden speech, taking us on a sumptuous and spellbinding tour of the places and people of her constituency. Her remarkable life and business experience made quite an impression and, I think, will make her not only an excellent champion for her corner of Suffolk, but a first-class addition to the House.

The hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) spoke generously about his predecessor, who incidentally is also my predecessor in the Ministry of Justice. He spoke with enormous knowledge about his constituency and made all our mouths water as he talked about the delights of Borough market and the plethora of breweries and gin distilleries in his patch. Indeed, he might need his predecessor’s taxi to get us all home.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) spoke with experience about the economic benefits of flexible working and highlighted the importance of data collection, echoing what many business people have said: what gets measured gets managed, and what gets published gets managed even better.

The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) rightly pointed out that we need to tackle the jobs that are deemed to be either men’s jobs or women’s jobs. We need to get rid of that myth from our everyday parlance and everyday thinking. Unfortunately, she also felt the need, along with the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith), to criticise the coalition Government for being slow to move away from a voluntary reporting system. She should remember that, contrary to what has been said, the previous Labour Government had no plans to move forward with section 78 of the Equality Act 2010; they proposed three years of voluntary compliance first, although I completely understand why the Labour party might want to erase parts of its more recent political history.

My hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Amanda Solloway) represents one of the 20 or so seats where there is actually a positive gender pay gap. We should certainly be hotfooting it to the streets of Derby to find out how they are making such magnificent progress.

The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), who is no longer here—[Interruption.] Oh, she is here but has moved, just to try to fool me on my first day out of the blocks. I welcome her contribution. She always speaks with enormous knowledge and conviction on this subject. She led a Westminster Hall debate in March in which she called for a new equal pay Act, and now she is proposing a new equality Act. We expect shortly to publish a post-legislative scrutiny memorandum on the 2010 Act as a Command Paper, and we now have the Women and Equalities Committee to receive it. It strikes me that the Committee, ably chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, might wish to consider the important issues that the hon. Lady raised in relation to the need for a new Act.

It was particularly great to hear from my hon. Friend and neighbour, the Member for Portsmouth South (Mrs Drummond), who rightly pointed out the importance of encouraging girls to fill the skilled engineering and defence jobs that our neck of the woods, with such a proud Navy heritage, always demands. She makes it 100% female representation for the Portsmouth harbour area, and that is to be celebrated.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan) on an educational and enlightening maiden speech that brought his constituency to life as the birthplace of James Watt, with a remarkable geography, and highlighted his long history of winning elections for the SNP.

My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) spoke about the success of women in SMEs, not least in her constituency, which has an award-winning bull semen business—the mind boggles. That reminds me that if women were starting businesses at the same rate as men, we would have 1 million more small businesses in this country. My hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately) highlighted the importance of the role of men in addressing this issue and how powerful they can be as agents of change.

The hon. Member for Stirling (Steven Paterson) made an excellent maiden speech giving a brief summary of his area’s history and making an early pitch for Stirling castle as an alternative location should we ever have to leave this building; I hope everybody has noted that.

My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) spoke with his trademark eloquence about girls’ educational dominance and rightly urged us not to forget their male peers who sometimes get left behind. He highlighted the impact of motherhood on women’s ability to fulfil their career ambitions and abilities.

The hon. Members for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens), for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) and for Neath (Christina Rees) made a series of powerful, passionate and engaging speeches that underlined the importance of tackling this issue for a whole host of reasons. I note carefully what the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley said about the travails of Birmingham City Council in the face of equal pay claims, although I find it hard to square that evidence with the statements made by others in her party that equal pay law is ineffective and should be replaced.

The hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) spoke about the local government pay gap, as did the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn). The Government do not seek to set pay rates for local government, as all local authorities are covered by the public sector equality duty, which requires them to have due regard to equality considerations in carrying out their functions, including decisions about their own workplaces. The hon. Member for Cambridge asked whether bonuses will be covered in the regulations. The great thing about the consultation is that it will explore exactly what should be published, how it should be published, and what more can be done to tackle this issue.

The hon. Member for Great Grimsby asked how we will fund 30 hours of free childcare. We will talk to the childcare sector and conduct a review of funding for this entitlement. We must strike the right balance between being fair to providers and delivering value for money for the taxpayer. I would gently say to her that as a mother of two children that I put through childcare under the previous Government, when it was the most expensive in Europe, anything we can do to improve opportunities for parents in this regard is very important.

The good news is that there are more women in work than ever before, and we have one of the highest women’s employment rates in the EU, with 14.5 million women employed, 8.3 million of whom are working full time. It is encouraging to see that there are now no all-male FTSE 100 boards. We have strongly promoted and championed the work of the Women’s Business Council and implemented Lord Davies’s review of women on boards. As a result, women now make up 23% of FTSE 100 boards and 34% of managing directors and senior officials. Let us not forget that 20% of SMEs are now majority led by women—that is nearly 1 million small businesses.

Too many women have told us that they were unable to develop their careers due to lack of affordable childcare and limited flexibility in balancing work and family responsibilities. We have taken action to ensure that the workplace meets women’s needs and to give them a fair chance to get to the top by extending to all the right to request flexible working, introducing shared parental leave, and extending free childcare to 30 hours a week for working families with three and four-year-olds, with a tax-free childcare scheme that will save a working family up to £2,000 per child.

We need to break down the barriers that say that one sort of job is more suitable for women and another for men. That needs to start with our young people, which is why we are broadening the career aspirations for girls and young women by encouraging them to consider careers in science, technology, engineering and maths through the “Your Life” campaign.

Many hon. Members have mentioned the great ladies from the Ford Motor Company in Dagenham—the spiritual home of the fight for equal pay—and I was there last week, seeing how they are inspiring the next generation of female engineers. Opening up those highly skilled and better paid careers ensures that women are less concentrated in sectors that offer narrower scope for reward and career progression.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke has said, we need to make sure that older women are supported to reach their full potential. We have built on the success of the older workers champion by rolling out a regional scheme across the country. We have also started a project with a £1.6 million pot, exploring how carers can be supported to remain in employment if they wish by using flexible working arrangements and improving technological access to information and resources.

Under this Government, the gender pay gap is the narrowest it has ever been, but at 19.1% we still have work to do. All parties agreed in the last Parliament that the way forward was to introduce section 78 of the Equality Act 2010, requiring mandatory pay reporting by employers with at least 250 employees. Our manifesto underlined our commitment to that. We are serious about reducing the gender pay gap further, and because we understand business we want to bring business with us as we do so. We are delivering that as a priority. In line with our commitments from the last Parliament, we will shortly launch a public consultation on gender pay reporting and introduce regulations in due course.

The Opposition’s motion mentions the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Low Pay Commission. Of course, we are already working closely with the EHRC on equal pay, and there is nothing to stop it, as an independent body, analysing pay gap information in any way it likes. The EHRC is already under a duty to monitor the effectiveness of the equality enactments, which include regulations made under section 78, and to give advice and recommendations to the Government about them. Therefore, the EHRC will already be under a under a duty to monitor the effectiveness of section 78. Given that the EHRC will already be under such a duty, and given that the only way it could be mandated would be by Parliament changing the Equality Act 2006, which sets out its functions and remits, the Opposition’s motion seems a little muddled. Where there is evidence of actual pay discrimination, we introduced legislation requiring employment tribunals to order the employer to complete an equal pay audit.

[Stephen Doughty]

Will the Minister give way?

[Caroline Dinenage]

I have very little time left, so I am going to try to get to the end of my speech, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. [Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman will give me time, I will offer a full explanation.

In conclusion, this Government are already strongly building on the record of the coalition, both in tackling the gender pay gap and, more widely, in promoting policies that will ensure that women can play their full part in our economic growth. I am proud to be a member of this Government—we are taking forward that work—and delighted to have this opportunity so early in the new Parliament to present our record to the House. However, we should never be complacent about equal pay and addressing the gender pay gap.

Sadly, although I share so much of the sentiment of the motion, all of its suggestions, apart from a formal laying of the annual document before Parliament, could already be done by the EHRC without any change to legislation or any instruction by Government, which we could not in any case give to an independent body. I therefore call upon the House to reject the motion as a muddled and unnecessary add-on to what this Government are already committed to taking very seriously.

Question put.