DRAFT National Minimum Wage (Amendment) REGULATIONS 2017

Debate between Stella Creasy and Owen Smith

Tuesday 14th March 2017 General Committees

[Stella Creasy]

Exactly. It is completely inconceivable that age rather than proficiency should define someone’s employability.

There is an issue for us here about whether the statutory instrument will help Britain. We have to acknowledge a word that seems to be missing from the Government’s vocabulary but will in fact define these issues: Brexit. Our economic position is so uncertain. The chances are that inflation will continue to rise; that is clear to the Opposition. The question of what difference £2 makes will be all the more important in the years ahead that the legislation provides for.

In 4 million households in this country people are in work but in poverty. The point behind the living wage campaign, which I am so proud to have been a small part of in my part of town in east London, where all the best things come from—I will fight you all for that—is that it is not simply about living to work or working to live, but living a life worth living. That is why having a living wage makes a difference. This is about the cost of living. Just as inflation has risen and wages have not—for the first time wages have not kept up with growth in our country—so the costs of living are extraordinary.

I have the dubious distinction of representing the part of the country with the most estate agents per square mile. My part of town has had the highest rise in house prices of any part of the country. The Minister looks shocked, but Kirstie and Phil are the harbingers of doom for many people in my community because the cost of living, which their wages have to cover, is going up and up. That is why having a real living wage matters. Not having one means that we as a society have to deal with the consequences in a number of ways. We have to try to help people cover the cost of living, keep a roof over their head, feed their kids, put money in their electricity meter and take their kids to school. We also have to deal with the consequences of debt that we are now seeing in our country.

I look at these proposals in the context of the impact: 24% of people in this country now have mental health issues because of their personal finances and 41% of families are worried about their debt and whether their wages are going to cover such costs. One in six of those people is worried because they have borrowed money from a family friend or member. There are real human consequences to not having a real, genuine living wage: families are torn apart.

[Owen Smith]

I am sure my hon. Friend was about to come on to this. She is making a powerful speech and a powerful point about private debt in this country, but was she as gobsmacked as me during the Budget to see that public debt is now scheduled to go up to £1.9 trillion by the end of the spending period? That is a 150% increase in our public debt since the Tories came to power. Does she think for a moment that they can ever again use the line about not saddling our children with debt when they have saddled this country with such debt?

[Stella Creasy]

I was very taken with the point that my hon. Friend made about these regulations in his speech. If the financial director of a company came to their board seven years in a row having got their sums wrong, we would expect somebody to get the sack. The Chancellor and the Prime Minister certainly bear some responsibility for this.

We know that the Government expect private debt to pay the cost of that public debt, so the people who are on low wages and are going to get into more debt because we are not paying them the living wage are the very people who are going to pick up the tab for the debt that my hon. Friend describes. I want to understand why the Minister thinks we should celebrate at this point in time when we see that personal debt is rising.

People are struggling. The 36% of people in my community who are paid less than the living wage need that extra £2. We need them to earn that extra £2 so we do not have to pick up the cost, not just because we are going to face a very expensive bill for Brexit and because of the way in which the Government are managing the public finances but because of the human cost and the effect on talent and creativity. We know that families with children living in poverty struggle harder to achieve. We know that the next generation needs a better shot than the current generation if it is to contribute to the global land of milk and honey that Brexit will deliver for us. We know, therefore, that it is not enough to claim that this is a living wage. Call it a minimum wage. It is wonderful that there has been a damascene conversion to the idea that this is of economic and social benefit, but do not call it a living wage when so many people are not able to live on it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith]

rose—

[Stella Creasy]

rose—

Higher Education Fees

Debate between Stella Creasy and Owen Smith

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

rose—

[Dr Creasy]

rose—