Leaving the European Union

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

The Prime Minister rightly referred in her statement—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. This is a most extraordinary situation. The hon. Gentleman is seeking to ask a question in a seemly way and is effectively being heckled and prevented from doing so by the chuntering from a sedentary position in pursuit of Scottish tribal warfare by the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Luke Graham). Calm yourself, man. The Prime Minister is perfectly capable of looking after herself. She was asked a question and she has given an answer. There can be differences of opinion and interpretation as to what is the responsibility of a Member of Parliament, and those issues have been aired. The hon. Gentleman has not in any way benefited the mix by his disorderly chunter.

[Robert Neill]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister rightly referred in her statement to the importance of leaving in a way that maintains the closest possible security, policing and judicial co-operation with the EU27. That is what we have at the moment. The Justice Committee was given clear evidence by the head of the National Crime Agency that to do otherwise would severely impair our ability to fight organised crime and terrorism and keep our country safe. Does she agree that to fail to leave without a deal—to fail, therefore, to pass the only available means of leaving with a deal—will be to put the security of the country at risk? That is not something that any Member of this House could responsibly contemplate doing.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

As in the normal progress of these things, whipping decisions will be taken when we see the proposals on the table. I reiterate the point I made in response to the right hon. Gentleman. The key issues raised around manufacturing industry are, yes, the benefits of a customs union—they are in the political declaration already—and ensuring we reduce friction for trade at the border. That is not just about customs, but the benefits of the customs union are in the political declaration already.

[Mr Speaker]

Ah yes, a Lincolnshire grandee: Sir Edward Leigh.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Not so grand, Mr Speaker, but just a question. The Prime Minister knows of my warm, personal support for her. I voted for her deal not once, not twice but three times. I have to say, as somebody who wishes her well and wishes the agreement well, that I am worried about the tactics. I thought we had agreed with the EU that we were going to have binding indicative votes, which would enable people such as me to express our opposition to a permanent customs union or a referendum and vote for the withdrawal agreement. Now when it is not necessary, because Parliament could do it anyway, I have been asked to vote for a Bill that has, on the face of it, a nod towards a second referendum, which I believe would be disastrous to the Union and to the vast majority of people who voted for Brexit.

I ask the Prime Minister to be very cautious, to listen to our party, to remember that the one vote we won was on the Brady amendment, and, if we cannot get this through, that, given the incalculable disaster of losing the Bill and not being able to bring it back again in this Session, she will, if necessary, think again and not bring it back?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

A choice between such distinguished colleagues—I call Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend must have noticed the response in this House and overnight to her statement. In proposing this folderol, is she going through the motions or does she really believe in it?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think I would have been standing here at the Dispatch Box and have been in receipt of some of the comments that I have been in receipt of, from colleagues on my side and across the House, if I did not believe in what I was doing. I am doing it because I genuinely believe that it is in the national interest for us to leave the European Union with a deal. The only way to get a deal through is to get a withdrawal agreement Bill through this House. There are issues that this House disagrees on. I believe that those issues should be put to the House and it will determine them. At that point, the House and all its Members will have to come to some decisions.

At the moment, it has been possible through indicative votes to give indications, but they have not been decisions that will be put into legislation. When the time comes to look at this matter, these will be decisions about what should go ahead in the Government’s position and what should be in legislation. People will not be able to duck the issues. It will be necessary to come to an agreement. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) does not need to chunter from a sedentary position. He is a very illustrious representative of Huddersfield, but the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) has just used a noun that, I hazard a guess, has probably not been used on any other occasion in this Parliament, or if it has, only by the hon. Gentleman.

[Alistair Burt]

It is because he’s got a Lib Dem council now. [Laughter.]

[Mr Speaker]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)]

What I welcomed most about the statement yesterday was its change in tone, which was markedly different from the ones that had gone before. I express my gratitude to the Prime Minister for the amount of time that she has personally spent with Members from across the House—including me—with whom she has disagreed but engaged in recent weeks. It is clear, though, that the contents of the statement yesterday have widened, not healed, divisions going forward. In the two weeks before the Bill comes before Parliament and this House, I urge her to carry on that engagement with an open mind and to enter into discussions at least about what can be changed on the face of the Bill going into Committee, in which case we will all have something to talk about. Otherwise, it is not even worth putting it forward in the first place.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

A Hampshire knight who represents a beautiful forest—I call Sir Desmond Swayne.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Out by the end of July, she says! A Brexiteer of whatever flavour could grant the Bill a Second Reading, saving their reservations for Committee, and make their final judgment on Third Reading, could they not? And what is a folderol?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

There are different definitions. A showy and useless item, allegedly, or an unnecessary or inconsequential fuss, or something—but that is only the view of the matter from the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg). I am not expressing any view on that matter; I was just intrigued by the endless lexicon of the hon. Gentleman.

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say, I think that when my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) used that word, he was not intending it to be complimentary about the package that the Government have brought forward. My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne) is absolutely right: for the Bill to get through, for the treaty to be ratified and for us to be able to leave at the end of July, it is about not only getting Second Reading through but ensuring that the Bill is confirmed on Third Reading. By getting through Second Reading, it is possible to have those debates during the progress of the Bill on the key issues that remain and on which there remains disagreement between Members of this House, such that it will be possible—I believe—to come to an agreement that can see us leave the European Union.