Wales Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 3 to 7.

Amendment 60, in clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 4 to 9 and insert—

“Part 2B

Establishment of Two Distinct Jurisdictions

92B Legal jurisdictions of Wales and of England

The legal jurisdiction of England and Wales becomes two legal jurisdictions, that of Wales and that of England.

92C The law of Wales and the law of England

(1) The law of England and Wales is divided into the law of Wales and the law of England.

(2) All of the law that extends to England and Wales immediately before the coming into force of this section—

(a) except in so far as it applies only in relation to England, is to extend to Wales (and becomes the law of Wales), and

(b) except in so far as it applies only in relation to Wales, is to extend to England (and becomes the law of England).

(3) In this section “law” includes—

(a) rules and principles of common law and equity,

(b) provision made by virtue of an Act of the United Kingdom Parliament, an Act of the Welsh Parliament or an Act or Measure of the National Assembly for Wales, and

(c) provision made pursuant to the prerogative.

(4) Any provision of any enactment or instrument enacted or made, but not in force, when subsection (1) comes into force is to be treated for the purposes of that subsection as part of the law that extends to England and Wales (but this subsection does not affect provision made for its coming into force).

92D Senior Courts system

(1) The Senior Courts of England and Wales cease to exist (except for the purposes of sections 92H (3) and (4)) and there are established in place of them—

(a) the Senior Courts of Wales, and

(b) the Senior Courts of England.

(2) The Senior Courts of Wales consist of—

(a) the Court of Appeal of Wales,

(b) the High Court of Justice of Wales, and

(c) the Crown Court of Wales, each having the same functions in Wales as are exercisable by the corresponding court in England and Wales immediately before subsection (1) comes into force.

(3) The Senior Courts of England consist of—

(a) the Court of Appeal of England,

(b) the High Court of Justice of England, and

(c) the Crown Court of England,

each having the same functions in England as are exercisable by the corresponding court in England and Wales immediately before subsection (1) comes into force.

(4) For the purposes of this Part—

(a) Her Majesty’s Court of Appeal in England is the court corresponding to the Court of Appeal of Wales and the Court of Appeal of England,

(b) Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice in England is the court corresponding to the High Court of Justice of Wales and the High Court of Justice of England, and

(c) the Crown Court constituted by section 4 of the Courts Act 1971 is the court corresponding to the Crown Court of Wales and the Crown Court of England.

(5) Subject to section 92I—

(a) references in enactments, instruments and other documents to the Senior Courts of England and Wales (however expressed) have effect (as the context requires) as references to the Senior Courts of Wales or the Senior Courts of England, or both; and

(b) references in enactments, instruments and other documents to Her Majesty’s Court of Appeal in England, Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice in England or the Crown Court constituted by section 4 of the Courts Act 1971 (however expressed) have effect (as the context requires) as references to either or both of the courts to which they correspond.

92E County court and family court

(1) The county court and the family court cease to exist (except for the purposes of sections 92H (3) and (4)) and there are established in place of them—

(a) the county court of Wales and the family court of Wales with the same functions in Wales as are exercisable by the county court and the family court (respectively) immediately before this subsection comes into force, and

(b) the county court of England and the family court of England with the same functions in England as are exercisable by the county court and the family court (respectively) immediately before this subsection comes into force.

(2) For the purposes of this Part—

(a) the county court is the court corresponding to the county court of Wales and the county court of England, and

(b) the family court is the court corresponding to the family court of Wales and the family court of England.

(3) Subject to section 92I references in enactments, instruments and other documents to the county court or the family court (however expressed) have effect (as the context requires) as references to either or both of the courts to which they correspond.

92F Judiciary etc.

(1) All of the judges, judicial office-holders and other officers of Her Majesty’s Court of Appeal in England or Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice in England become judges, judicial office-holders or officers of both of the courts to which that court corresponds.

(2) All of the persons by whom the jurisdiction of the Crown Court constituted by section 4 of the Courts Act 1971 is exercisable become the persons by whom the functions of both of the courts to which that court corresponds are exercisable except that (despite section 8(2) of the Senior Courts Act 1981)—

(a) a justice of the peace assigned to a local justice area in England may not by virtue of this subsection exercise functions of the Crown Court of Wales, and

(b) a justice of the peace assigned to a local justice area in Wales may not by virtue of this subsection exercise functions of the Crown Court of England.

(3) All of the judges, judicial office-holders and other officers of the county court become judges, judicial office-holders or officers of the county court of Wales and the county court of England.

(4) All of the judges, judicial office-holders and other officers of the family court become judges, judicial office-holders or officers of the family court of Wales and the family court of England except that (despite section 31C(1)(y) of the Matrimonial and Family Proceedings Act 1984)—

(a) a justice of the peace assigned to a local justice area in England is not a judge of the family court of Wales, and

(b) a justice of the peace assigned to a local justice area in Wales is not a judge of the family court of England.

92G Legal professions

(1) Every legal practitioner who would (but for this Part) at any time after the coming into force of this Act be entitled to carry on a reserved legal activity for the purposes of the law of England and Wales, in proceedings in England and Wales or before the courts of England and Wales, has at that time the same entitlement for the purposes of the law of England and the law of Wales, in proceedings in England and proceedings in Wales and before the courts of England and the courts of Wales.

(2) In this section—

“legal practitioner” means every solicitor, barrister, notary, legal executive, licensed conveyancer, patent attorney, trade mark attorney, law costs draftsman, accountant or other person who, in accordance with the Legal Services Act 2007 (c. 29), is entitled to carry on a reserved legal activity;

“reserved legal activity” has the same meaning as in the Legal Services Act 2007.

92H Division of business between courts of Wales and courts of England

(1) The Senior Courts of Wales, the county court of Wales, the family court of Wales and the justices for local justice areas in Wales are to apply the law extending to Wales (including the rules of private international law relating to the application of foreign law).

(2) The Senior Courts of England, the county court of England, the family court of England and the justices for local justice areas in England are to apply the law extending to England (including the rules of private international law relating to the application of foreign law).

(3) All proceedings, whether civil or criminal, pending in any of the Senior Courts of England and Wales, the county court or the family court (including proceedings in which a judgment or order has been given or made but not enforced) must be transferred by that court to whichever of the courts to which that court corresponds appears appropriate.

(4) The transferred proceedings are to continue as if the case had originated in, and the previous proceedings had been taken in, that other court.

Supplementary

92I Power to make further provision

(1) Her Majesty may by Order in Council make provision (including provision amending or otherwise modifying any enactment or instrument, including this Act) that appears appropriate in consequence of, or otherwise in connection with, the provision made by this Part.

(2) The provision that may be made under subsection (1) includes in particular provision relating to—

(a) courts,

(b) tribunals,

(c) the judges, judicial officers and other members and officers of courts and tribunals,

(d) the Counsel General or other law officers,

(e) the legal professions,

(f) the law relating to the jurisdiction of courts and tribunals, and

(g) other aspects of private international law (including, in particular, choice of law, domicile and the recognition and enforcement of judgments and awards).

(3) No Order may be made under subsection (1) unless a draft of the Order has been laid before, and approved by resolution of—

(a) each House of the United Kingdom Parliament, and

(b) the Welsh Parliament.”

This amendment replaces the Bill’s proposed recognition of Welsh law with provisions to establish two distinct legal jurisdictions of England and Wales, as drafted by the Welsh Government.

Government amendments 8 to 12.

Amendment 68, in clause 8, page 10, line 2, at end add

“in relation to any of the matters in subsection (2)(a) to (c) or a majority of the total number of Assembly seats in relation to the matters in subsection (2)(d) or (e).”

This amendment would substitute a majority of Assembly Members for the two-thirds super-majority required to change the existing specification or number of constituencies, regions or any equivalent electoral area, and the number of members to be returned for each constituency.

Government amendment 13.

Amendment 69, page 10, line 26, at end add

“in relation to any of the matters in section 111A (2)(a) to (c) or a majority of the total number of Assembly seats in relation to the matters in section 111A (2)(d) or (e).”

This amendment is consequential on amendment 68, to substitute a majority of Assembly Members for the two-thirds super-majority required to change the existing specification or number of constituencies, regions or any equivalent electoral area, and the number of members to be returned for each constituency.

Government amendments 14 to 22 and 26.

Amendment 63, in schedule 1, page 50, line 31, leave out “Betting, gaming and”.

This amendment with amendments 64 and 65 would devolve betting, gaming and lotteries in Wales (other than the National Lottery) to Welsh Ministers and the National Assembly for Wales.

Amendment 64, page 50, leave out line 32 and insert “The National Lottery”.

See amendment 63.

Amendment 1, page 50, line 32, at end insert—

“Exception

In the case of a betting premises licence under the Gambling Act 2005, other than one in respect of a track, the number of gaming machines authorised for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10 (or whether such machines are authorised).”

This amendment would modify section B18 (betting, gaming and lotteries) of proposed Schedule 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006 such that the number of gaming machines authorised by a betting licence in Wales would fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales. A corresponding amendment (NC2) proposes that powers be granted to the Welsh Ministers, under the Gambling Act 2005, to regulate the number of gaming machines authorised by a betting licence in Wales.

Amendment 65, page 50, line 32 , at end insert—

“Exception

All lotteries other than the National Lottery”.

See amendment 63.

Amendment 67, page 59, line 36, at end add

“other than the Wales and Borders franchise”.

This amendment allows the Welsh Government to be responsible for the Wales and Borders franchise.

Amendment 61, page 68, line 17, at end insert—

“Exceptions

Welsh language broadcasting and other Welsh language media.”

This amendment would devolve competence to the National Assembly for Wales in relation to Welsh language broadcasting and other Welsh language media.

Amendment 2, page 72, line 28, leave out paragraph 184.

This amendment would modify section M4 (development and buildings) of Part 2 of proposed Schedule 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006 such that the community infrastructure levy would fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales.

Government amendments 27 to 33.

Amendment 66, in schedule 2, page 85, line 3, at end insert—

“(11A) The requirement for consent by the appropriate Minister under—

(a) paragraph 8 above, in relation to a reserved authority,

(b) paragraph 10 above, in relation to public authorities (other than Wales public authorities), or

(c) paragraph 11 above, in relation to functions of a Minister of the Crown or any power of the Secretary of State under section 6 of the Railways Act 2006

does not apply where the provision of an Act of the Assembly relates to a Welsh language function.”

This amendment removes the requirement for Ministerial consent for Acts of the Assembly affecting functions of reserved authorities, public authorities or Ministers where the Act of the Assembly relates to a Welsh language function.

Government amendments 34 to 42.

New clause 2—Gaming machines on licensed betting premises—

“(1) The Gambling Act 2005 is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (12) of section 172 (gaming machines), after paragraph (a) insert—

‘(aa) the Welsh Ministers, so far as, in the case of a betting premises licence in respect of premises in Wales and not in respect of a track, the order varies—

(i) the number of gaming machines authorised for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10, or

(ii) whether such machines are authorised;’

(3) In section 355 (regulations, orders and rules)—

(a) in subsection (1) after “the Secretary of State” for “or the Scottish Ministers” substitute ‘, the Scottish Ministers or the Welsh Ministers’;

(b) at the end insert—

‘(12) An order made by the Welsh Ministers under section 172 shall not be made unless a draft of the Order has been laid before and approved by resolution of the National Assembly for Wales.’

(4) The amendments made by this section do not apply in relation to a betting premises licence issued before this section comes into force.”

This new clause would give powers to the Welsh Ministers, under the Gambling Act 2005, to regulate the number of gaming machines authorised by a betting licence in Wales. A corresponding amendment (amendment 1) has been proposed to modify this aspect of the reservation to the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales on betting, gaming and lotteries (section B18 of proposed Schedule 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006 set out in Schedule 1 to this Bill).

Amendment (a) to new clause 2, leave out “£10” and insert “£2”.

Amendment (b) to new clause 2, leave out “do not”.

New clause 3—Rail: franchising of passenger services—

“(1) Section 25 of the Railways Act 1993 (public sector operators not to be franchisees) is amended as follows.

(2) At the end of subsection (2A) insert ‘or a franchise agreement in respect of services that are or include Wales-only services.’

(3) After subsection (2A) insert—

‘(2B) For the purposes of this section a “Wales-only service” has the same meaning as in section 57 of the Railways Act 2005.’

(4) This section does not have effect in relation to any invitation to tender under section 26(2) of the Railways Act 1993 issued before the day on which this section comes into force.”

This new clause would remove a restriction in section 25 of the Railways Act 1993 on certain public sector bodies bidding to operate a rail franchise that is made up of or includes rail services within Wales.

New clause 10—Wales and Borders rail franchise—

“(1) Executive franchising functions are devolved to the Welsh Government.

(2) The Welsh Government must consult the Secretary of State on details of the devolved franchise, including how cross-border routes are procured and managed.

(3) The Welsh Government must maintain the existing Wales and Borders franchise until it expires in 2018.

(4) The Welsh Government is solely responsible for letting and managing the new Wales and Borders franchise to take effect after the expiry of the current franchise in 2018.”

This new clause allows the Welsh Government to be solely responsible for letting and managing the new Wales and Borders franchise to take effect after the expiry of the current franchise in 2018.

Government amendments 43, 44, 48, 49, 51, 52, 55 and 57.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn]

Constitutional change in Wales moves at a measured pace. It is 800 years since Wales last had the power to raise taxes. The Bill gives new dignity to our Parliament. For the first time in centuries, we have our own Parliament on the soil of our own country.

I would like to associate myself with the thanks offered by the Secretary of State for Wales. I thank my friends on the Opposition Benches from all parties, especially my hon. Friends the Members for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) and for Newport East (Jessica Morden), who have been my constant companions. I find it something of an astonishment that I am here on the Bill; a lot has happened since First Reading. In spite of the little difficulties we may have had, the opposition presented by my hon. Friends on the Labour Benches has been robust and clear.

The Bill is, of course, a stage; it is not an ending or a full stop. We would like to go full speed ahead with the development of a separate Welsh Government with at least the powers of Scotland. That is not possible because there is a drag anchor coming from the Conservative party. I wish they would pull their anchor up and let the good ship Welsh Assembly sail free into clear waters. I am sure there are many on the Government Benches who think that the development of tax-raising powers in 800 years is a little too rushed, but we are going ahead now with the Parliament for Wales. It is not a means in itself and it is not there to build and institution or create politicians; it is there as the means to the end of creating laws that benefit the Welsh people and have that Welsh personality.

We do not claim to be superior to anyone else or any nation, but we do have a tradition of a compassion in society, of a kindness, of a subtlety, of a cleverness that is unique to the Welsh nation. It is there in its clearest forms in our arts and poetry. I was delighted, coming in today, to witness its continued flowering. A young woman I had never heard of before, Kizzy Crawford from Merthyr Tydfil, sang beautifully on the radio this morning. She does not just sing in English. She said, “It is much better when I do it in Welsh. I can say things in Welsh that I can’t say in English.”

The great Hungarian littérateur István Széchenyi asked: where is the nation? If we are looking for the personality of the nation, where is it? He said, “A nation lives in her language”—Mae cenedl yn byw yn ei haith. That is of great importance. What is so precious to us is the wisdom of our 1,000-year language: the subtlety and the humour that has come to us echoing down the centuries. It is our most precious gift, one that is treasured and practised in the Welsh Assembly.

If I can pray your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I would like to say a few words in the language of heaven. It is a poem that celebrates the permanence of Wales, its language and spirit:

“Aros mae’r mynyddau mawr,

Rhuo trostynt mae y gwynt;

Clywir eto gyda’r wawr

G?n bugeiliaid megys cynt.

Eto tyf y llygad dydd

O gylch traed y graig a’r bryn…

Mae cenhedlaeth wedi mynd

A chenhedlaeith wedi dod.

Wedi oes dymhestiog hir

Alun Mabon mwy nid yw,

Ond mae’r heniaith yn y tir

A’r alawon hen yn fyw”.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope the hon. Gentleman will do the Hansard writers the great courtesy of providing them the text of that which he has just so eloquently read to the House.