John Bercow
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(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)
I beg to move,
That no change be made to the time at which the House sits on a Monday.
Mr Speaker
With this it will be convenient to take the following:
Motion 2—Sittings of the House (Mondays) (1.00 pm to 8.30 pm)—
That this House should meet at 1.00 pm on Mondays, with a moment of interruption of 8.30 pm, and accordingly the changes to Standing Orders set out in the table be made, with effect from Monday 15 October 2012.
Standing Order no. | Line no. | Change |
|---|---|---|
9 (Sittings of the House) | 3 | Leave out ‘and’ and insert ‘at one o’clock, on’. |
20 | Leave out ‘ten o’clock on Mondays’ and insert ‘half past eight o’clock on Mondays, at ten o’clock on’. | |
10 (Sittings in Westminster Hall) | 12 | Leave out ‘be between half past nine o’clock and two o’clock’ and insert ‘begin at half past nine o’clock, shall be suspended from one o’clock until four o’clock and may then continue for up to a further one hour’. |
16 | Leave out ‘two and a half’ and insert ‘one hour, two and a half hours’. | |
15 (Exempted business) | 21 | Leave out ‘eleven o’clock on Monday or’ and insert ‘half past nine o’clock on Monday, eleven o’clock on’. |
17 (Delegated legislation (negative procedure)) | 2 | Leave out ‘half past eleven o’clock on Monday or’ and insert (‘ten o’clock on Monday, half past eleven o’clock on’. |
20 (Time for taking private business) | 26 | Leave out ‘seven o’clock on any specified Monday or’ and insert ‘half past five o’clock on any specified Monday, seven o’clock on any specified’. |
37 | At start, insert ‘half past five o’clock,’. | |
54 (Consideration of estimates) | 20 | Leave out ‘seven o’clock on Monday or’ and insert ‘half past five o’clock on Monday, seven o’clock on’. |
88 (Meetings of general committees) | 11 | Leave out ‘one o’clock and half past three o’clock in the afternoon on Mondays or’ and insert ‘five minutes to one o’clock and two o’clock in the afternoon on Mondays, between the hours of one o’clock and half past three o’clock in the afternoon on’. |
22 | At start, insert ‘five minutes to one o’clock,’. |
Motion 3—Sittings of the House (Tuesdays) (No change)—
That no change be made to the time at which the House sits on a Tuesday.
Motion 4—(Sittings of the House) (Tuesdays) (11.30 am to 7.00 pm)—
That this House should meet at 11.30 am on Tuesdays, with a moment of interruption at 7.00 pm, and accordingly the changes to Standing Orders set out in the table be made, with effect from Monday 15 October 2012.
Standing Order no. | Line no. | Change |
|---|---|---|
9 (Sittings of the House) | 3 | Leave out ‘and Tuesdays at half pasttwo o’clock, on’ and insert ‘at half past two o’clock, on Tuesdays and’. |
7 | After ‘a’ insert ‘Tuesday or’. | |
20 | Leave out ‘and Tuesdays, at seven o’clock on’ and insert ‘, at seven o’clock on Tuesdays and’. | |
10 (Sittings in Westminster Hall) | 4 | Leave out lines 4 and 5 |
6 | After ‘on’ insert ‘Tuesday or’. | |
10 | At start, insert ‘Tuesday or’. | |
15 (Exempted business) | 21 | Leave out ‘or Tuesday, eight o’clock on’ and insert ‘, eight o’clock on Tuesday or’. |
17 (Delegated legislation (negative procedure)) | 2 | Leave out ‘or Tuesday, half past eight o’clock on’ and insert ‘, half past eight o’clock on Tuesday or’. |
20 (Time for taking private business) | 26 | Leave out ‘or Tuesday, four o’clock on any specified’ and insert ‘, four o’clock on any specified Tuesday or’. |
24 (Emergency debates) | 28 | Leave out ‘or Tuesday, half past ten o’clock on a’ and insert ‘, half past ten o’clock on a Tuesday or’. |
54 (Consideration of estimates) | 20 | Leave out ‘or Tuesday, four o’clock on’ and insert ‘, four o’clock on Tuesday or’. |
88 (Meetings of general committees) | 11 | Leave out ‘or Tuesdays, between the hours of twenty-five minutes past eleven o’clock in the morning and half past one o’clock in the afternoon on’ and insert ‘, between the hours of twenty-five minutes past eleven o’clock in the morning and half past one o’clock in the afternoon on Tuesdays or’. |
Motion 5—Sittings of the House (Wednesdays) (No change)—
That no change be made to the time at which the House sits on a Wednesday.
Motion 6—Sittings of the House (Wednesdays) (10.30 am to 6.00 pm)—
That this House should meet at 10.30 am on Wednesdays, with a moment of interruption at 6.00 pm, and accordingly the changes to Standing Orders set out in the table be made, with effect from Monday 15 October 2012.
Standing Order no. | Line no. | Change |
|---|---|---|
9 (Sittings of the House) | 3 | Leave out ‘on Wednesdays at half past eleven o’clock and on’ and insert ‘and on Wednesdays and’ |
20 | Leave out ‘, at seven o’clock on Wednesdays and at six o’clock on’ and insert ‘and at six o’clock on Wednesdays and’. | |
10 (Sittings in Westminster Hall) | 7 | Leave out ‘half-past eleven o’clock until half past two o’clock’ and insert ‘half past ten o’clock until half past one o’clock’. |
9 | Leave out ‘two’ and insert ‘three’. | |
16 | Leave out ‘two and a half or three’ and insert ‘three or three and a half’. | |
15 (Exempted business) | 22 | Leave out ‘, eight o’clock on Wednesday or seven o’clock on’ and insert ‘or seven o’clock on Wednesday or’. |
17 (Delegated legislation (negative procedure)) | 3 | Leave out ‘, half past eight o’clock on Wednesday or half past seven o’clock on’ and insert ‘or half past seven o’clock on Wednesday or’. |
20 (Time for taking private business) | 27 | Leave out ‘, four o’clock on any specified Wednesday or three o’clock on any specified’ and insert ‘or three o’clock on any specified Wednesday or’. |
37 | Leave out ‘, four o’clock’. | |
24 (Emergency debates) | 28 | Leave out ‘, half past ten o’clock on a Wednesday or half past nine o’clock on a’ and insert ‘or half past nine o’clock on a Wednesday or’. |
41A (Deferred divisions) | 38 | Leave out ‘eleven’ and insert ‘ten’. |
45 | Leave out ‘eleven’ and insert ‘ten’ | |
54 (Consideration of estimates) | 21 | Leave out ‘, four o’clock on Wednesday or three o’clock on’ and insert ‘or three o’clock on Wednesday or’. |
88 (Meetings of general committees) | 13 | Leave out ‘, between the hours of twenty-five minutes past eleven o’clock in the morning and half past one o’clock in the afternoon on Wednesdays or between the hours of twenty-five minutes past ten o’clock in the morning and half past twelve o’clock in the afternoon on’ and insert ‘or between the hours of twenty-five minutes past ten o’clock in the morning and half past twelve o’clock in the afternoon on Wednesdays or’. |
22 | Leave out ‘, twenty-five minutes past eleven o’clock’. |
Motion 7—Sittings of the House (Thursdays) (9.30 am to 5.00 pm)—
That this House should meet at 9.30 am on Thursdays, with a moment of interruption at 5.00 pm, and accordingly the changes to Standing Orders set out in the table be made, with effect from Monday 15 October 2012.
Standing Order no. | Line no. | Change |
|---|---|---|
9 (Sittings of the House) | 5 | Leave out ‘ten’ and insert ‘nine’. |
21 | Leave out ‘six’ and insert ‘five’. | |
10 (Sittings in Westminster Hall) | 14 | Leave out ‘two and insert ‘one’. |
15 (Exempted business) | 23 | Leave out ‘seven’ and insert ‘six’. |
17 (Delegated legislation (negative procedure)) | 6 | Leave out ‘seven’ and insert ‘six’. |
20 (Time for taking private business) | 28 | Leave out ‘three’ and insert ‘two’. |
24 Emergency debates | 30 | Leave out ‘half-past’. |
54 (Consideration of estimates) | 22 | Leave out ‘three’ and insert ‘two’. |
88 (Meetings of general committees) | 15 | Leave out ‘twenty-five minutes past ten o’clock in the morning and half past twelve o’clock in the afternoon’ and insert ‘twenty-five minutes past nine o’clock and half past eleven o’clock in the morning’. |
23 | Leave out ‘ten’ and insert ‘nine’. |
Motion 8—September Sittings—
That this House considers that the Government should bring forward motions to provide for the House to sit in September from 2013 onward.
Motion 9—Sittings of the House (Tuesdays) (7.00 pm to 10.00 pm)—
That this House should sit on Tuesdays from 7.00 pm until 10.00 pm to consider Private Members’ Bills.
Mr Knight
I commend the Procedure Committee’s report on sitting hours—HC330—to any Member who has not yet read it because it will be helpful in determining the decisions to be made during this debate.
I have been surprised over the past two weeks to see reports in certain sections of the press suggesting that MPs were demanding shorter hours, and that at a “time of national crisis”, we were seeking to cut back on the number of hours that we work. That forced me to re-read my Committee’s report. As I suspected, I discovered no such proposition in it. In fact, the Committee concluded that the hours we spent at Westminster were broadly correct and should continue. I guess that the headline “MPs resolve to work as hard as ever but may choose different hours” does not have the same attraction for a sub-editor, even if it is accurate.
Mr Speaker
Order. Many Members wish to speak, and a few minutes—not many—will at some stage have to be allowed for the Front-Bench Members’ contributions. There is not a formal time limit, but I appeal to Members to make brief contributions, in the interests of their colleagues.
Mr Speaker
Order. There is no formal time limit on speeches, but there is now heavy pressure on time. I want to accommodate colleagues, so I call for brevity. We will be led, with great distinction, in this exercise in succinctness by a very senior Member of the House: Mr Jack Straw.
Mr Speaker
Order. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who has done a great service to the House and been very considerate in speaking with such brevity. I know that we will now hear two extremely brief speeches from the two Front Benchers.
Mr Speaker
Order. We have only 30 minutes left and several Members are still seeking to catch my eye. I appeal to colleagues to make very short speeches to allow others to contribute.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
I thank the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) for all his Committee’s work and the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) for her eloquent speech. Notwithstanding the considerable progress made since the right hon. Lady first came into Parliament, we still have a long way to go before this institution is fit for the 21st century.
As I walked into the Chamber today, I noticed the snuff box still provided for MPs by the entrance. That is perhaps just a faintly amusing anachronism, which falls into the category, mentioned by the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), of traditional things that are not harmful. I would say that our late sittings fall into the category of things that are anachronistic and harmful. They are harmful to the health of Members—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I appeal to Members to show courtesy to those who are speaking, rather than wittering away as though their own conversations were somehow more important. Sit quietly—and if you are not interested in doing so, get out. We can manage without you.
Caroline Lucas
I was saying why I thought late hours were harmful. They also give out the impression that things here are suited to the workings of a gentlemen’s club, and that gets in the way of efficient working.
I hope that Members will take this opportunity to bring the Commons out of the snuff age and into the 21st century. We should not be afraid of change because we will all benefit from a more modern House of Commons. When I say “modern”, I fully appreciate that on some days the hours that help some families closer to Westminster will be different from the hours that help families in constituencies further afield.
We have to take on a system that takes the mix of constituency distance from Westminster on board, and there is a solution for Tuesday and Friday that could be an improvement for all Members. I shall come to that after commenting briefly on the other days. I share the commonly held view that the distances that many Members need to travel are a sound reason for leaving Monday’s hours as they are. Ideally, I would like a slightly earlier start time on Wednesday, but I could certainly live with an 11.30 start if Members felt strongly about it. As for Thursday, many Members share the view that the earlier we start and finish the better, so that those whose constituencies are far away at least have a chance of staying for important debates and getting home at a reasonable hour. I hope that the 9.30 to 5 o’clock Thursday will be adopted.
I turn to the case for the earlier start time of 11.30 on Tuesday, which I support. I want to address concerns that that is, apparently, just a measure designed for the benefit of MPs with constituencies near Westminster. To many who are promoting the change, it is about being people-friendly, allowing people control over how they organise their lives and work, and having greater certainty over how we arrange our working lives. Yes, it will directly help family access for some; as long as that does not make it worse for others, we should not be saying, “If it doesn’t help me, why should I help you?”
We should be mindful that, whenever possible, we also have a duty to lead by example with good working practices. Late hours are not good for House of Commons staff who have to clear up afterwards and keep the place running. We are also allowing an unhealthy working culture to prevail. If we do not reform where we can—and Tuesday is the obvious candidate for reform—we send the message that hard-working people are not entitled to a healthy work-life balance. People, and even MPs, are entitled to that. We are often characterised as taking long holidays when in fact most of us are working hard in our constituencies.
The issue is about creating a House of Commons that is both effective and people-friendly. Of course, family arrangements often differ depending on how far away from our constituencies we are here in Westminster, but that can be addressed if we combine an earlier start on Tuesdays with moving private Members’ Bills to Tuesday evenings. Starting Tuesday’s business at 11.30 am and giving PMBs the Tuesday evening slot would have three benefits. It would give PMBs the prominent midweek slot they deserve, it would deal with the problem of filibustering, and it would allow Fridays to become an official constituency day.
We need to send out a very clear message that the House of Commons is a reasonable place in which to work—a place where people can work even when they have family commitments both far and near. That is why we have to make this place a more friendly place for women. The House of Commons is 81% male, and that is a shocking figure. If we frame our sitting hours around modern life instead of allowing the continuation of a system based on hangovers from the snuff-snorting era, we can send out the important message that we are not happy with the status quo of 81% men and want to be a place where the population is properly represented. Changing sitting hours will not solve everything, but it will make things better. I very much hope that by supporting motions 4 and 9 we will take the opportunity to make this place more contemporary and even just slightly more appealing to those who are staggeringly under-represented.
Paul Blomfield
I acknowledge the point that has been made, but contrary opinions have been expressed by others who were around in that period. Indeed, some Select Committees appear now to be—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Again, a large number of rather excitable private conversations are taking place. We owe Members the courtesy of a fair hearing.
Paul Blomfield
As has been pointed out, there are Select Committees that meet earlier and that seem to manage to arrange for witnesses to attend.
The argument for earlier Tuesday sittings, as well as standing on its own merits, provides the opportunity to move the debates on private Members’ Bills to Tuesday evenings. As a Back Bencher, I believe in the importance of our having the opportunity to drive change through the House. Although I acknowledge the other options that the Chair of the Procedure Committee shared with us, moving those debates to a Tuesday evening would give many of us a greater opportunity to attend.
Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)
We have heard a number of insightful contributions and a number of anecdotes. I do not mean to add to the latter and want to add only to the former.
I make one, simple case: it is perfectly appropriate for this Parliament to express an opinion once about its sitting hours. That is not disproportionate. If all hon. Members would choose a different way to serve their constituents, surely the maximum flexibility is the best route to go down. Changing the moment of interruption on a Tuesday night would make a small difference, but it would be significant if we are to serve our constituents in the way they expect.
Mr Speaker
Order. Under the order of the House of Monday, I am now required to put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the motions relating to sittings of the House. I will put them in sequence. If any of the motions to maintain the status quo for Mondays to Wednesdays is agreed to, the alternative motion relating to that day will fall and will not be called. Before I put the Question on motion 1—Sittings of the House (Mondays) (No Change)—I remind the House that if the question is agreed to, motion 2 will fall.
Division 49
Ayes: 267
Labour: 141
Conservative: 93
Liberal Democrat: 25
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 2
Independent: 2
Scottish National Party: 2
Plaid Cymru: 1
Alliance: 1
Green Party: 1
Noes: 233
Conservative: 139
Labour: 67
Liberal Democrat: 19
Scottish National Party: 3
Plaid Cymru: 2
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 1
Democratic Unionist Party: 1
Mr Speaker
We come now to motion 5. [Interruption.] Order. It would help the House if it was clear what it was voting on. Once again, I remind the House that if the question on motion 5 is agreed, motion 6 will fall.
Sittings of the House (Wednesdays) (No change)
Resolved,
That no change be made to the time at which the House sits on a Wednesday.—(Mr Knight.)
Mr Speaker
As the House’s short-term memory will enable it to recall, motion 6 now falls. We therefore come to motion 7. I remind the House that if this motion is negatived, the sitting times of the House on Thursdays will be unchanged.
Sittings of the House (Thursdays) (9.30 am to 5.00 pm)
Motion made, and Question put,
That this House should meet at 9.30 am on Thursdays, with a moment of interruption at 5.00 pm, and accordingly the changes to Standing Orders set out in the table be made, with effect from Monday 15 October 2012.
Standing Order no. | Line no. | Change |
|---|---|---|
9 (Sittings of the House) | 5 | Leave out ‘ten’ and insert ‘nine’. |
21 | Leave out ‘six’ and insert ‘five’. | |
10 (Sittings in Westminster Hall) | 14 | Leave out ‘two and insert ‘one’. |
15 (Exempted business) | 23 | Leave out ‘seven’ and insert ‘six’. |
17 (Delegated legislation (negative procedure)) | 6 | Leave out ‘seven’ and insert ‘six’. |
20 (Time for taking private business) | 28 | Leave out ‘three’ and insert ‘two’. |
24 Emergency debates | 30 | Leave out ‘half-past’. |
54 (Consideration of estimates) | 22 | Leave out ‘three’ and insert ‘two’. |
88 (Meetings of general committees) | 15 | Leave out ‘twenty-five minutes past ten o’clock in the morning and half past twelve o’clock in the afternoon’ and insert ‘twenty-five minutes past nine o’clock and half past eleven o’clock in the morning’. |
23 | Leave out ‘ten’ and insert ‘nine’. |
—(Mr Knight.)
Mr Speaker
We now come to the next Back-Bench business debate, on the motion relating to VAT on air ambulance fuel payments, which may continue until 7 pm. In a moment I shall call the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) to open the debate. I feel sure that Members leaving the Chamber will wish to do so quickly and quietly so that we can have an orderly transition to the next debate and the hon. Gentleman can be heard with the courtesy and attentiveness that we would all wish.