Proposed Public Expenditure Cuts

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 13th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to update the House on the progress of the spending review, and to remind people of the context in which we make these difficult decisions.

The previous Government left Britain with the largest budget deficit of any major economy and no credible plan to deal with it. That was a major cause of instability and uncertainty that threatened any prospect of economic recovery. It was reflected in the substantially higher market interest rates that British families and businesses were being charged compared with those for families and businesses in countries that were regarded as less exposed to sovereign credit risk. The new Government had to take urgent steps to restore stability and allay fears about our country’s ability to pay its way in the world. In the words of the previous Labour Prime Minister,

“if we fail to offer a convincing path out of debt, that...will itself plunge us into stagnation”.

Those views were echoed in the comments this weekend from the International Monetary Fund, which said that

“fiscal consolidation remains essential for strong, sustained growth over the medium run”.

That is why in the Budget I announced decisive steps to get the deficit under control. I believe that that Budget has restored stability to the British economy and provided a sound basis for a sustainable recovery. It has helped keep down the market interest rates that Britain pays on its debts, which are today more than half a percentage point lower than at the general election. In other countries, such as Spain, Portugal or Ireland, these same rates have stayed broadly flat or gone up since then.

Because of the measures that we are taking, independent forecasters are increasingly confident about the British economy. Last week the OECD predicted that the UK would see the strongest growth in the G7 this quarter and the second strongest growth next quarter. I can also tell the House that today the EU predicted that the UK will see the strongest recovery in the second half of this year of any major European economy. These, of course, are just forecasts and all this hard-won stability would be put at risk if we did not now implement the components of our Budget plan.

Let me remind the House of the measures that we took at the emergency Budget and the steps that we now have to take. We are set to tighten the public finances by a total of £113 billion by 2014-15. Of this, £29 billion will come from tax measures, including the increase in VAT, higher capital gains tax and a new permanent levy on banks. A further £11 billion will come from the welfare reforms announced at the Budget. Another £10 billion will come as a consequence of paying lower interest charges on the national debt as a result of our plan—£10 billion that those who opposed the Budget plan would have to find to pay the holders of Government debt.

That leaves £61 billion that will come from reductions to departmental expenditure plans. It is worth reminding the House that £44 billion of that £61 billion was assumed in the figures left to us by the previous Government. In other words, for all the synthetic noise and fury that we hear, £3 of every £4 that we are having to cut were cuts that the Opposition were planning to make. Unfortunately, not a single one of those pounds was allocated to a specific programme.

Our job now is to allocate those departmental budgets. That is the purpose of the spending review that is under way, and I will announce the full results to the House of Commons on 20 October. The review is informed by the largest public consultation exercise ever undertaken on public expenditure. More than 100,000 substantive ideas have been received from members of the public. Teams at the Treasury have been sifting through these ideas over the past six weeks and some are already being implemented.

We have also created a mechanism for collective discussion of spending issues across the Cabinet, which is something of an innovation, so the Prime Minister—[Interruption.] Well, there was a Cabinet Committee on life chances, on talent and on democratic renewal under the previous Government, but no permanent committee on public expenditure. The Public Expenditure Committee of the Cabinet has already met twice this month and will meet again this week.

Of course, some decisions that shape the spending review have already been taken. We will protect the budget of the NHS with real increases, we will honour the commitments on international aid that we have made to the poorest in the world, and we will protect capital investment in our economic future. We have not reduced capital spending in future years beyond the plans that we inherited, and as we take further decisions, we will strive to ensure that those support economic growth, promote reform and local control, and are fair—fair between different sections of society and between different generations.

Let me say something about welfare spending—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I tell the Chancellor that he has well exceeded his time? Allowance will have to be made for the Opposition Front Bench. That will happen today, but in future the time limits must be adhered to in this place.

[Mr Osborne]

I will heed your injunction, Mr Speaker, but the question was a very general one about an update on the public expenditure review.

I shall say something about welfare, if the Speaker will allow me. The welfare bill has risen by 45% in the past 10 years and almost £1 in £3 that the Government spend goes towards welfare. The current system is not protecting those who genuinely cannot work, nor is it helping those desperately looking for work to find a new job quickly. Close to 5 million people are on out-of-work benefits, more than half of whom have spent at least half of the past 10 years in this situation. Rather than rewarding work and supporting the vulnerable, we are wasting the lives of millions of people. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is working with me and other Cabinet colleagues to see what we can do fundamentally to reform the welfare system so that it rewards work and supports aspiration, as well as saving the taxpayer on what someone once called the bills for social failure. When we have decisions to announce, we will bring them to the House and, of course, we will want to keep the House informed in other ways.

I have already given the Treasury Committee an unprecedented power to veto my preferred candidate to chair the independent Office for Budget Responsibility, Mr. Robert Chote, and I can tell the House today that I have asked my hon. Friends the Members for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) and for Southport (Dr Pugh) to draw on their considerable expertise on the Public Accounts Committee in the last Parliament to advise the Government on how to improve the financial management systems that we have inherited, and in turn improve accountability to the House.

We have many difficult choices to make, but one thing is clear: one party created this mess; two parties are working hard to clear it up.

[Mr Osborne]

The position on welfare is exactly as I set out in my Budget speech at this Dispatch Box when I said that if we could find further savings on welfare, we would be able to reduce the pressure on other Departments. That was what we were planning to do over the coming months as part of the spending review, and that is exactly what I said in the television interview to which my hon. Friend refers.

Secondly, it would be impossible to conduct a spending review without looking at the welfare bill. Whether one is looking for £61 billion of savings or £44 billion, welfare spending accounts for a third of the entire Government budget, so one has to look at the welfare budget. That is what we are doing, but we are looking to do it in a way that reforms welfare, to help those millions of people who have been trapped for a decade or more on out-of-work benefits into work, to help those with aspirations to improve their income, to make sure that work is rewarded by the benefit system, and to do that while we are protecting those who cannot work and protecting the most vulnerable in our society. I would argue that the failure on welfare reform over the last decade was one of the greatest failures of the previous Government.

Despite the lurid headlines in some newspapers, the relationship and the co-operation between the Treasury and the DWP is strong. There is a perfectly natural—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Chancellor must be heard. This sedentary chuntering needs to come to an end. I want to hear the Chancellor.

[Mr Osborne]

It is an improvement on the situation under the previous Government, where there was absolutely no contact between the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and the Chancellor. The two Departments are working very well. Obviously the Treasury is interested in financial management and control: that is a proper part of our function. My right hon. Friend has inspirational plans that he has worked on to reform welfare and get people working, and the two of us are working together with colleagues in the Cabinet to make that happen.

Let me finally say something about the tax gap and people who do not pay their taxes. Later this week, figures will be produced—independent figures, not produced by me—which will show the latest situation on the tax gap that we have inherited: in other words, the gap between what should be collected in tax and what is collected in tax at the moment. Judging by previous figures I have seen, I think that the House will be pretty staggered by this number. [Interruption.] Labour Members seem to forget that their people were in power for 13 years. We have inherited this situation, and we will be taking steps to reduce tax avoidance, including tax avoidance by the richest people in our society, so that everyone makes a contribution.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The shadow Chancellor and the shadow Chief Secretary are not in Westminster today, Mr Speaker, and you will be aware that I had asked a similar urgent question of the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, so it is good that the Chancellor is replying, although very unfortunate that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has chosen not to come to respond.

On Thursday, the Chancellor told the BBC that the Government were cutting an additional £4 billion from out-of-work benefits. The BBC website says:

“The government is planning to reduce the annual welfare bill by a further £4bn, Chancellor George Osborne has told the BBC.”

Today, he has refused to tell the House what he told the BBC. Did the BBC correspondents just get it wrong? Did they mishear what he said? Will he now come clean and tell us what he has in fact got agreed and planned for the additional cuts that he wants to make to the welfare bills for the spending review? Will he tell us whether the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has agreed to £4 billion of additional cuts? Will he admit that the timing of this interview had nothing to do with reaching agreement on the spending review with the Work and Pensions Secretary and everything to do with getting Andy Coulson off the BBC headlines for the day?

In June, the Chancellor wrote to the Secretary of State:

“I am pleased that you, the prime minister, and I have agreed to press ahead with reforms to the ESA as part of the spending review that deliver net savings of at least £2.5bn by 2014/15.”

His Chief Secretary said yesterday that this was not agreed; well, is it agreed or isn’t it?

The Chancellor is not being straight with the House—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) is normally a pretty equable fellow; he is getting a little over-excited. I must ask the right hon. Lady to withdraw that term. No Minister would be other than straight with the House. She will find another word, I feel sure.

[Yvette Cooper]

I certainly accept your point, Mr Speaker. I am sure that no Minister would want not to be straight with the House, and I am sure that the Chancellor will be. I withdraw any suggestion that he was not, because I am sure that he will be.

Will the Chancellor confirm, therefore, that saving an additional £4 billion from getting people into work will require new jobs for 800,000 people, at a time when his own Office for Budget Responsibility says that far from creating an extra 800,000 jobs, his Budget will cut 100,000 jobs from the economy in each and every year?

The Chancellor has also said that he plans to target the workshy and those who are fit for work. Will he confirm, however, that savings from getting those who are fit for work off sickness benefits are already built into the Treasury figures, and that cutting an extra £2.5 billion from employment support allowance would hit only those who have been through the new, tougher test and who even his Ministers agree are genuinely too sick or too disabled to work? Is it not the truth that he is planning to cut the level of support for some of the most vulnerable people in society? Will he confirm that someone who is on employment support allowance, and has been through the test, is already facing a £285 cut in the value of their ESA and an average £650 cut in their housing benefit as a result of his plans?

The Chancellor claims to support jobs and to be progressive, but he is doing the opposite. The truth is that his plans hit the poorest harder than the rich, women harder than men and children and pensioners worst of all. Now he has shown that he is targeting those who are most sick and disabled in society. Is it not the truth that he has decided to hit those who he knows will find it harder to fight back? This is not progressive; it is a nasty attack, and he should withdraw it now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend have a view on why Labour Members continue to treat the entire British public like children? They spend, spend, spend, bringing our country to the verge of bankruptcy—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is much pressure on time. I remind the hon. Gentleman that he must ask a Minister about the policy of the Government, not the attitude of the Opposition. We will leave it there; the Chancellor can respond briefly if he wants, but he is under no obligation.

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend said some very good things about how the Opposition treat the rest of the country like children.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

The Chair of the Treasury Committee asked the Chancellor to publish new details of the distributional impact of the Budget, including the proposed cuts to housing benefit and disability living allowance. Is the Chancellor aware that the Institute for Fiscal Studies produced such an analysis last month? Is he aware that it says that

“the overall effect of the new reforms announced in the June 2010 Budget is regressive, whereas the tax and benefit reforms announced by the previous Government” —

for the same period—

“are progressive”?

In the light of that evidence, will he explain whether he still claims that his Budget and his Government are progressive?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There were three questions there, but one answer will suffice.

[Mr Osborne]

I can do no better than repeat what the IFS said in the report to which the hon. Lady has referred. It said that in 2012,

“Considering all tax and benefit reforms… the richest tenth of households lose the most in both cash and percentage terms.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. In recognition of the level of interest, I have given this question a very good run but, due to pressure of time, some people will have to be disappointed. We must now move on.