Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Bill

Simon Hoare Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I have been asked to vote for some pretty awful stuff over the past couple of years, but this has to be the most profoundly un-Conservative measure. It will compound the damage that was done to rights of property in 2017, and the proposal to amend the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 will extend that damage to other walks of our national life, fundamentally undermining our position as a stable and predictable place in which to invest.

The digital roll-out has been stymied by changes that have brought about the very reverse of what was originally intended with the changes to the code in 2017. As a consequence, our constituents have been intimidated and bullied.

I have a constituent who refused a survey—she did not want a mast, because it would compromise her existing enterprise—but caved in when she was threatened with court action. Then, when she refused the terms of the mast, she was presented with statutory orders requiring access for both a temporary and a permanent mast. Of course, getting legal advice comes at an enormous cost. Happily, New Forest national park authority has thrown out the applications for both masts, but the battle, the uncertainty and the cost continue.

I have a group of constituents in a block who have let their collective roof for an antenna over the past few years and received an income, but have now received a demand with menace for a dramatic reduction in the income. They are having to deal with a demand for a 30-year lease of their entire roof. It is really quite extraordinary how the terms of trade have been rigged against landowners.

The Secretary of State presented the matter as if the problem were the landowners—as if we have to find ways of getting landowners to become more reasonable. When I had a meeting with the Minister for Media, Data and Digital Infrastructure, she reassured me with the alternative dispute resolution process, which we have heard about from the Secretary of State today. The problem with that procedure is that it is not mandatory. The telecom companies know that they do not need to engage with it, because they can afford to go to court and their victims cannot. That is the difficulty—that is the outrage that we have created.

It is no wonder that the whole roll-out has stalled and that no one wants to give access for a mast, because the income is not worth it and the consequences are frankly deplorable. Small farms, churches and small sports clubs used to have an income, but it has now crashed and they have all the uncertainty and inconvenience of continuing to host a mast. As I pointed out in an intervention on the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), there is no prospect of getting their land back without court action and development.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Sports clubs, parish halls, village halls and the like have seen a real depreciation in their income because of non-use as a result of covid, so does my right hon. Friend agree that this is precisely the worst possible time for an enforced reduction in their income? Many of them will have hard-baked an expectation into their future financial forecasts.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

Of course, and these are the very people—the hearts of our community—who are now identified as the villains whom the Bill creates more power to bring to heel. It is the most monstrous piece of legislation that has been brought before us, and we should deal with it accordingly. We had a functioning market in 2016, and in 2017 we brought in measures. Whitehall has destroyed that market, egged on by rapacious telecom companies, and this Bill will make it even worse.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Warman]

My right hon. Friend does not make a wholly unreasonable point, but ultimately that money is going into an incredibly rapid roll-out of 5G. In rural areas in particular, we are seeing the industry putting in half a billion pounds of its own money alongside half a billion pounds of Government money to get to some of those hardest to reach places, so I fundamentally do not accept his premise, which is that the industry is not investing as it should. I would like the Government to go even further to see even more investment. He is right to focus on some of the small areas that rely on this income. However, that cannot be the main economic driver for the roll-out of 5G.

[Simon Hoare]

Does my hon. Friend accept that the reverse seems to be happening and that the roll-out seems to be slowing down? Does he also accept that this is a rather mature market of providers in an increasingly profitable arena, with ever-greater demand for their services from a growing population? Therefore, it may be worthwhile revisiting this de-incentivisation—obviously that was not the intention but it seems to be the result—to see whether restoring the proper remuneration that people had expected may speed up this much-needed roll-out.

[Matt Warman]

Ultimately, I think reducing it in the predictable and long-announced way is what will speed up the roll-out. However, to give my hon. Friend and my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest West, who is no longer in his place, a little succour, the industry should be on notice that if the currently voluntary dispute resolution system does not work and does not deliver fair settlements, perhaps the Government will think about giving the system some more teeth. There is a balance to be struck, and this Bill strikes it in the right way. However, there is another step that one could take.

[Simon Hoare]

My hon. Friend is being characteristically generous with his time. We had this sort of debate about the water companies and sewage. Unless their toes are held to the fire, they will exploit a system—I do not criticise them for so doing—for as long as they can. If the Government were more robust in bringing this forward as a clear commitment and making it binding and obligatory, that might help unblock the logjam.

[Matt Warman]

Ultimately, I simply say, from a Conservative standpoint, that I would like regulation to be as light touch as possible. This is the right step down that road. It may be necessary to be more robust, but we are not there yet.

Moving on to “secure by design”, my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) asked the Opposition which of the other 13 points they would bring in. This Bill introduces three of them, and they are immensely welcome, but they are the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to cyber-security. I would not jump immediately to all 13, and the world has somewhat moved on since the 2017 report to which she referred, but there is a clear direction of travel. I welcome how the Government are introducing the proposal, but the industry should be looking at what more there might be to do.

Finally, my hon. Friend also talked about cyber-security in a much broader sense than this Bill. A huge number of businesses will rely on cyber-security professionals in future to ensure that they are provided with the kind of security that they need and that which their insurance companies’ policies might require to guard them against the potential costs of hacking. In due course, some of the people operating in that profession will require greater regulation. The UK Cyber Security Council, which the Minister oversees, is welcome, but further regulation, perhaps in the manner of the Bar Council, is what will allow the cyber-security profession to grow, flourish and continue to preserve Britain’s place as a world-leading cyber-power, which we all want. This Bill helps us to get ever closer to that goal, and I commend it to the House.