Firearms Bill

Debate between Simon Baynes and Holly Lynch

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th March 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Holly Lynch]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Gary, in these important proceedings. I congratulate the hon. Member for West Bromwich West on the progression of his private Member’s Bill and the hon. Member for Clwyd South, who is the custodian of the legislation this afternoon. I will speak to amendments 1 to 3, which are in my name, and clauses 1 to 3.

We very much welcome the fact that the Bill will clamp down on loopholes related to miniature rifles. Clause 1 is fundamental to that; it makes limited changes to the Firearms Act 1968 by introducing a requirement for the operators of miniature rifle ranges to obtain a firearm certificate and by restricting such ranges to .22 rimfire weapons only. Clause 2 will introduce a new offence of possessing component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture, and provides clear definitions and sentences. We recognise that the Bill follows the publication of the firearms safety consultation, which sought views on improving the controls on miniature rifle ranges. Some 73% of those who responded to the consultation agreed or strongly agreed that the operator of a miniature rifle range should be required to have a firearm certificate.

We support the legislation, but there is concern that it is very limited in scope and misses an opportunity to deliver a significant and long-sought-after tightening up of the firearms licensing regime more broadly. I have spoken to police officers involved in firearms licensing, who tell me that there are examples of miniature rifles being adapted into more dangerous weapons and used to facilitate criminality. It was felt that the requirement for someone who is operating a miniature rifle range to apply for a firearms licence should be accompanied by further conditions, in recognition of the fact that they are running such an establishment, rather than simply possessing a firearm. It was also felt that the running of the range itself should be subject to routine checks on compliance, but that is missing from clauses 1 and 2.

Generally speaking, we rightly have robust firearms laws in the UK, which have broad and enduring support. Firearms incidents are rare, but all Members will be deeply troubled by recent examples of the fatal use of firearms by licensed firearms holders. We have tabled amendments 1 to 3, while recognising the scope of the legislation, in the hope that they could be rolled out to firearms licensing more broadly. They seek to introduce sensible and proportionate changes to the licensing regime, taking into consideration the learning from recent atrocities.

Amendment 1 would ensure that a person’s social media presence was taken into account when an application for a firearms licence under clause 1 was being considered. Members will be aware of the report summarising the Independent Office for Police Conduct investigation into the prior contact between Devon and Cornwall police and Jake Davison, who committed the Plymouth mass shooting, which my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport will go into in more detail. The report stated that Davison

“posted prolifically on Reddit… about incels and incel ideology”.

Although he did not express an overt wish to harm anyone, he was involved in the heavily misogynistic and violent incel online community, and

“He also discussed his poor mental health, disillusionment with life and relationships, and dislike of his mother on Reddit and YouTube.”

The report did not identify any individual instance of misconduct or poor performance from Devon and Cornwall police in relation to the vetting of Davison’s social media during the licensing process, as at that time the statutory guidance on firearms licensing included limited advice on conducting social media checks.

In its six recommendations, the Independence Office for Police Conduct stated that statutory guidance on firearms licensing should be amended

“to require that open-source research is conducted for all applications, with more intrusive checks for high risk applicants.”

Amendment 1 reflects that recommendation. Again, it is within the scope of the Bill; I hope that the Government will recognise that and adopt he amendment.

Amendment 2 states:

“Before a firearm certificate may be issued or renewed for an operator of a range or gallery under this section, the…police must meet privately with members of the applicant’s family or household before deciding whether the applicant is fit to be entrusted with”

a firearms licence. In its December 2022 report, “Firearms licensing regulations in Scotland”, following the Skye shootings, the Scottish Affairs Committee recommended that

“the UK Government change the statutory guidance on firearms licensing to more strongly recommend that police forces involve present and former conjugal partners in the application and renewal process. Echoing the system used in Canada”.

In the most recent instances of unlawful and fatal use of licensed firearms, family members of the perpetrators faced the greatest risks. Amendment 2 would place a duty on police forces to discuss the applicant’s suitability for a licence with their family members in private meetings. That would significantly enhance the referee system. The Scottish Affairs Committee report stated that it had significant concerns about the process,

“which must be addressed before it is fit for purpose.”

It noted

“concerns about applicants canvassing for referees, and lack of mandatory consultation with people close to firearms licence applicants.”

Amendment 3 is almost consequential to amendments 1 and 2, but provides for a long overdue rebalancing. It is the first ask of any police force when we raise firearms licensing with it. The Minister for Crime, Policing and Fire said on Second Reading that the Government

“have committed to consulting this year—probably in the summer or early autumn—about increasing…fees to make sure that the full costs are recovered by police forces.”—[Official Report, 3 March 2023; Vol. 728, c. 1076.]

I very much welcome that. I hope hon. Members will agree that the proposals are entirely appropriate, and that the proposals for additional checks are grounded in clear recommendations born out of painful lessons learned.

The financial implications of licensing are addressed in amendment 3. On Second Reading, the Minister revealed that as of 2 March, four constabularies in England and Wales had unacceptably high backlogs for firearms licences, including temporary licences. I suspect that resourcing is part of the challenge for forces, but do any of us constituency MPs want officers to come off the frontline, and step away from neighbourhood policing, in order to bring down the backlog in firearms licensing?

Under the amendment, only the costs of the process would be recouped, but even that would be a significant rebalancing for police forces. I hope the Government will accept the amendment. They could run a pilot scheme covering miniature rifles, with a view to considering its merit, and then extend it to all firearms. I hope the Government and the Minister are listening. We certainly welcome this Bill; we just wish there was a little more in it.

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Gary, and to take the Bill forward on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West. As the hon. Member for Halifax said, I am the custodian of the Bill, which is a big responsibility, and I greatly appreciate the role. I also took the Bill through its Second Reading in the Chamber on 3 March.

It is widely acknowledged that the UK has some of the toughest gun controls in the world, but it is important that the Government keep those controls under review and take action to strengthen them further when evidence suggests that that is necessary. I thank the hon. Member for Halifax for her comments. Before I speak about the clauses, I will address her proposed amendments. I value her comments, and she made some valid points, specifically about social media profiles, the chief officer meeting applicants’ families and households, and ensuring that payment equals the cost of issuing licences. I trust that the Minister has heard and taken on board those points, but given the narrow, very specific scope ofthe Bill, I question whether this is the correct place for the discussions brought about by the amendments. Amendments 1 and 2 pose wider, valid questions to explore. Amendment 3 could perhaps be covered by secondary legislation. As the hon. Lady said, these points need broader discussion, but that is not possible within the scope of the Bill and given what we hope to achieve today. However, I appreciate her bringing the amendments forward.

The clauses will further strengthen firearms controls by addressing two vulnerabilities that could be exploited by criminals, terrorists, and those with malicious intent. Clause 1 removes the exemption in firearms controls that allows a person to operate a miniature rifle range without first obtaining a firearm certificate from the local police. The Bill will place a requirement on them to obtain a firearm certificate, and they will therefore be subject to the important police checks that are done before a certificate is issued. Those checks cover the suitability of a person’s having access to firearms for a legitimate purpose—in this case, to operate a miniature rifle range—and ensure that the firearms and associated ammunition will be handled and stored safely. The firearms used in miniature rifle ranges, which are rifles chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges, must in all other circumstances be held on a certificate issued by the police. Clause 1 will helpfully clarify in law that these are the firearms used at the rifle ranges, and will bring their control in line with controls on those firearms in all other circumstances.

Clause 2 gives the police the power that they need to prevent criminals from manufacturing unlawful ammunition. The key components of ammunition are the propellant, which helps to propel a projectile from a firearm by burning rapidly, and the primer, which is an explosive chemical compound that ignites the propellant. Both are already controlled, and there are offences relating to the unlawful possession of complete ammunition. However, the police have expressed concern that these controls are not sufficient to prevent criminals from acquiring the components and going on to unlawfully manufacture ammunition. The clause will close that gap by making it an offence to possess the components of ammunition with the intent to manufacture unlawful ammunition.

I am advised that there will be law-abiding shooters who may have components of ammunition that they use lawfully, for such purposes as reloading ammunition, which they are legally able to possess by virtue of their firearms certificate. The offence in clause 2 has therefore been drafted in a way that will not criminalise such lawful activities. It requires first that the person committing the new offence has any of the components in their possession; secondly, that the person has the intent of manufacturing ammunition; and thirdly and critically, that the person would have no lawful basis for having the ammunition once it was assembled and complete. In that way, the clause ensures that those who are able to hold ammunition by virtue of a firearm certificate issued under section 1 of the Firearms Act 1968, or who are registered firearms dealers under the Act and permitted to possess or manufacture such ammunition, will not be caught by the new offence when going about their lawful activities.

This is a small but important Bill. Events such as those in Plymouth in August 2021, or more recently at Epsom College, are clear reminders that we cannot afford to be complacent about the risks that firearms can present. The Bill will seek to address two identified vulnerabilities in this country’s robust firearms controls, and it is right to take action to address those vulnerabilities. I have pleasure in presenting the Bill to the Committee.