Housing Benefit (Wales)

Debate between Siân C. James and Guto Bebb

Thursday 1st May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Siân C. James (Swansea East) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Roger, for the opportunity to speak in the debate. I will be concentrating on the impact of the changes on my constituency of Swansea East and responding to some of the points that we made in the report. I have carefully considered the evidence in the report and tried to cross-reference it with how the changes are affecting people every day in my constituency.

We are clearly suffering in Swansea East. I do not think that it is too strong to talk about the vicious effect, or the pernicious effect, that the legislation is having in my constituency. We have heard the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) speak very eloquently about the effect that it is having on a rural community, but Swansea East is a typical city or urban constituency, with high demand for social housing in both the public and the private sectors. There are increasing levels of hardship in Swansea East. Most of the people affected are approaching the citizens advice bureau, ourselves and the local authority. Wave after wave of people are appearing on our doorsteps as their problems deepen and they become more concerned, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to help them or to point them in the right direction, because they are at the end of their tether, both figuratively and financially. I have spoken to many individuals who are currently struggling to balance the books—to meet their budgets—but the biggest cause of anxiety by far is the changes to housing benefit and the bedroom tax.

The amount of rent that people in the private sector can claim—their local housing allowance—has been cut back to 30% of the rental value that is available on the market. For many people, only the lowest-value properties are open to them within their already stretched budgets. That places a huge question mark over the suitability and quality of the properties that they can now access or afford. On a daily basis, I hear stories about tenants being housed in properties that are well below any acceptable standards, are too small for their needs and/or are lacking in what people would consider acceptable. Unfortunately, there is one key word that all those properties have in common. The Government would call them affordable; I call them cheap, and cheap usually means not a good enough standard.

That is the reality for far too many people in Wales. It is a sad indictment of the policy and doctrines of the current Government. Their short-sightedness is pushing many people ever closer to homelessness and possible destitution. These are not my words; they are the concerns of well regarded, well respected organisations, such as the Chartered Institute of Housing and Citizens Advice.

[Guto Bebb]

Those concerns were also highlighted in north Wales before the changes to the spare room subsidy were implemented, but the three largest social sector housing providers in Conwy and Denbighshire have seen their arrears either fall or remain static, so were the concerns exaggerated by those individuals and organisations?

[Mrs James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He is very fortunate, because that is not the pattern that we are seeing in the urban areas, the cities, of south Wales. I will come to some figures later and try to demonstrate the effects that the policy is having on the local authority and the ever-increasing problems that the legislation is creating.

Already, 30,640 homes that are part of the available rented housing stock in Wales are beyond the reach of people on housing benefit. I got these figures from the Chartered Institute of Housing. It estimates that already more than 30,000 homes that are part of the available housing stock in Wales are outside the reach of people who are seeking other homes or cheaper homes or wanting to downsize because of the legislation. In fact, 89% of tenants in Wales will see their benefits cut, and the loss will be on average £8 a week or £416 a year—before we even take the bedroom tax into consideration. Significant amounts of money are disappearing from people’s daily budgets. I know that that is popular in some areas and will make many readers of certain tabloid newspapers feel better, but if they had to live with the reality of it all, they might feel differently about it.

The proposals make a complete travesty of the rented housing sector. We are constantly being told that they are justified and that the Government are attempting to encourage mobility in the social rented sector, strengthen work incentives and make better use of social housing. My response is that they are not doing any of the above, and I seriously doubt whether they ever will. The policies do not encourage mobility in the social rented sector; in fact, I believe that they are creating a dependency on the substandard lower end of the market, regardless of the condition of the homes available for rent at an affordable price. The policies certainly have not strengthened work incentives. Many tenants I come across are suffering from housing-related health problems and are so overwhelmed by their housing issues that seeking work is not an option. They are absolutely ground down into depression by the problems that they face.

It is worth pointing out that the social housing sector simply cannot meet the demand for good-quality, up-to-standard housing when there are insufficient numbers of smaller properties to move tenants into. The Government have wrongly assumed that moving tenants to smaller properties is an easy option. The reality in Wales is that a vast percentage of local authority housing stock consists of traditional three-bedroom properties. That is a direct result of the post-war boom in house building, when properties with three or more bedrooms were needed to accommodate families, which were traditionally larger than they are today. In the 21st century, families have changed, housing needs have changed and there is a clear shortage of smaller one or two-bedroom properties for families to move into. Even when smaller properties are available to rent, they may be unsuitable for the needs of those who seek homes.

I hope that the Minister can provide me with some figures on a matter that the city and county of Swansea has come across. For more than 20 years, its policy has been not to house children, disabled people or elderly people in flats on or above the second floor, for the good reason that there have been tragic accidents in the past, which have been frightening for tenants. It is not deemed proper to house those with mobility problems or children on upper floors, where they have to deal with stairs, balconies or windows at a height. Has the Minister looked at the issue, and can he tell us how many other local authorities are in a similar position? I applaud the city and county of Swansea, because the policy is an eminently sensible one. Obviously, however, it reduces the available housing stock.

A Labour party freedom of information request showed that councils will be unable to help 19 out of 20 families who are affected by the bedroom tax. The figures from the 37 local authorities that responded suggest that 96,000 families will be hit by the bedroom tax, but there are only 3,688 one or two-bedroom council properties available for families who wish to move to avoid the tax. The entire exercise is proving similar to moving the deckchairs around on the Titanic; it is not a good idea when many other more pressing issues need to be addressed. I would be happy to work with the Government on those more pressing issues in our communities. We seem to be pursuing the policy just for the sake of making things look better, and it is simply not working.

Benefit claimants are being treated as though they were part of some sort of social experiment that is being undertaken to appease certain sectors of the community. We already know the outcomes. The policies do not work. They punish and condemn those who are dependent on benefits, and they do not remotely encourage improvement or change for the better.

Before I finish, I want to touch quickly on discretionary housing benefit. We have heard about other local authorities that do not seem to be having a problem and that are quite happy with the situation, but we have a small shortfall in Swansea in the money that is coming in. Currently, the shortfall is some £1,200, which sounds great, but I am concerned that the combined funding from the Department for Work and Pensions and the Welsh Assembly Government is not enough. If the situation continues, we will see an ever-increasing burden on the local authority and its finances. In Swansea, there were 3,198 applications for discretionary housing payment in 2013-14. The local authority awarded 1,871 discretionary housing payments, but it refused 1,327. It is pretty clear that there is a funding gap. In addition, the discretionary housing payment is awarded only for a maximum of 52 weeks. I echo the request of the hon. Member for Ceredigion for further clarification on the future of the discretionary housing allowance.

The housing benefit changes have adversely affected almost all claimants in Wales.

Fuel Poverty (Wales)

Debate between Siân C. James and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mrs James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Yes, it is clear that there is no choice. In Wales, 264,000 households—more than a quarter of a million homes—have no access to mains gas, so they have no option. I take on board his point.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Mrs James]

I will carry on.

Although I welcome the Government’s plan to introduce a scheme in 2014 under which utility companies must automatically swap people on to their cheapest tariff, I am concerned that that will be a price too far for some. Once the scheme is introduced, energy companies will remove the discounted tariffs available to those who can swap at will, and I fear that those people will then pay even more for their energy.

The problem of fuel poverty is exacerbated in Wales because we are also dealing with lower incomes and a higher prevalence of part-time work. Both factors make it difficult for families to pay their bills and have money left over to put food on the table. According to the Office for National Statistics, wages in Wales in 2013 have sunk back to 2003 levels. If the Government put more focus on the economy and created more full-time jobs, they would help my constituents and those of every Member in the room enormously. Only by providing full-time jobs with decent wages can we help ensure that people in Wales can afford to meet their heating costs.

The green deal does not go far enough. It is far from perfect, and it is not doing enough to address the problem of fuel poverty. It might be useful for households to take out a loan to carry out home improvements, but the interest rate is set far too high, at 7%. It is odd to expect a home owner to pay up front for an assessment of their home, typically at a cost of £80 to £150. How does that help someone who is already struggling with their bills? The short answer, of course, is that it does not.

The Welsh Government have set a target of ending fuel poverty by 2018, and they have implemented the Nest scheme. Although I am pleased with the scheme overall, and I am pleased they are investing £100 million in it over five years, there needs to be better reviewing and measurement of fuel poverty in Wales. We need to see the statistics to judge for ourselves whether energy efficiency improvements are successful and result in cheaper bills. As far as I am aware, the last measurement of fuel poverty was carried out as part of the Living in Wales survey in 2008. If any Member knows differently, or knows of more up-to-date information, I would be grateful to receive information from them.

We should not forget that the impact of fuel poverty on a household is enormous and potentially fatal. In winter 2010-11, there were an estimated 1,900 excess winter deaths in Wales and England—an increase on the five-year average of 1,786 excess winter deaths a year. I am sure a number of facts contributed to that increase, but the Hills review estimated that 10% of winter deaths can be attributed to fuel poverty. If the Government had acted sooner, they could have prevented 190 deaths.

Fuel poverty inflicts much misery on too many people in Wales. To use an old pun, it is time to give it the cold shoulder.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Siân C. James and Guto Bebb

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs James]

I agree with my hon. Friend and I appreciate her words. We have a wonderful food bank in Swansea. It was the food bank for Gorseinon and was doing sterling work—I have supported it 180%— but it is now expanding to cover the whole city and I would like to praise it for its work and determination.

People are struggling, and when we realise that, on average, 25% of any family’s income goes on keeping a roof over their head and 20% is spent on food and essential items, we can see that that does not leave a lot at the end of the week. People are struggling and families have to make tough decisions. It does not take a genius to realise that that they end up robbing Peter to pay Paul, which results in even more problems for us to solve as a community.

Labour has always believed that the best way to tackle poverty is to provide meaningful work and to move families forward and out of poverty. Supporting mothers is a very important aspect of that and we must think about the effect that the introduction of universal credit will have on such families, and in particular on women. Wales is one of 12 regions in the UK and will be the fifth worst loser in this.

There was a great fanfare on Tuesday about a new coalition of charities and organisations that have come together as Cuts Watch Cymru, including Oxfam and Save the Children—names which are well known in our communities and belong to reputable organisations. When we read their document, which talks about the momentous effect that the cuts will have on generations to come, we have to sit up and listen. This is not babble or chatter: low-income parents are facing potential losses.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I have read the report that the hon. Lady mentions and I am absolutely disgusted by its contents. The scaremongering within the report is utterly unacceptable, and the conclusion states:

“Despite the paucity of evidence”—

the paucity of evidence—

“we can nevertheless conclude that welfare reform is likely to have a serious effect on people in Wales.”

That is not a serious report; it is Labour party propaganda disguised behind the charities that the hon. Lady mentioned.

[Mrs James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comment, but obviously I do not agree. These charities are reputable, I have worked for some of them, and I can certainly tell him that the families I represent in Swansea East meet the criteria and will be in difficulty in the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb]

The choir were absolutely superb, and they were from my hon. Friend’s constituency, or possibly from that of the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards); there is some debate.

Last night was a success, but I would like to turn my attention to something else. I intervened on the hon. Member for Swansea East (Mrs James) in relation to the Cuts Watch Cymru report that was published on Tuesday. I was dismayed by the publicity that the BBC gave the report, because it made no mention whatever of the fact that at least 10 of the 19 organisations that subscribed to the report are in receipt of Assembly funding. I am also concerned that the report made no mention whatever of one of the most dangerous proposals that I have heard in this House, which is the Labour party’s proposal to introduce a regional benefits cap. I was in this Chamber when we debated the benefits cap, arguing in favour of a £26,000 cap, which is equal to £35,000 a year, which would be a high cap in Wales. However, it is important to point out that when that debate was held in this House—when the Labour party had proposed a regional cap—there was not a single Welsh Labour Member in attendance. I would like to know whether they were in favour of a regional benefits cap or opposed it. There is no mention of that in the Cuts Watch Cymru report.

What we get in the report, time after time, are statements that are frankly absurd, and which are in no way, shape or form supported by any facts. For example, when the report—which I have here—talks about the changes to jobseeker’s allowance, it says:

“The impact of changes to JSA are far from clear.”

It goes on to say that it is not clear how the changes to income support will affect claimants—and this is supposed to be a serious piece of work.

[Mrs James]

When we ring for advice or information, we are told, “We haven’t got that information yet,” so the position is indeed unclear. As I have said previously, we do not know what the facts are.

[Guto Bebb]

I am grateful for that intervention, but when the report was covered by the BBC—the people responsible for the report are the Bevan Foundation, a mysterious organisation funded by Blaenau Gwent council; indeed, I think the president is a certain Lord Kinnock, who used to have some political affiliation with the Labour party, I believe—its statements and predictions about the future of Wales under the welfare reform changes that we are proposing as a Government were presented as factual. Yet when one reads the report, one finds no evidence. My point, first, is that when those organisations—well-respected organisations, as the hon. Lady pointed out—create such reports, they give credence to the scare stories about our welfare reform proposals. Those stories make people feel scared and vulnerable, even though they have no reason to feel that way because the welfare reform changes that this Government are introducing are long overdue, supported by the people of Wales and necessary in Wales. We want people to once again be better off working, but those who are unable to work to be protected. Our proposals will ensure that those who are unable to work will be protected.

For example, we hear time and again about the impact of the proposed changes on the sick and vulnerable in society. Yet the truth of the matter is that, for example, the number of cancer patients in the support group—which means that they will not be subject to any changes—will increase from 67% under the previous Government to 75% under this Government. That is a change that is a positive; that is a change that protects the vulnerable.