Deep Sea Mining Bill

Debate between Sheryll Murray and Peter Bottomley

Friday 6th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Mining is not a new industry, certainly not for us in Cornwall. There is a saying, “Wherever there is a hole in the ground, there will be a Cornish miner at the bottom of it.” With over 4,000 years of history, the Cornwall and West Devon mining landscape became a world heritage site in 2006, and I was very proud to be a councillor on Caradon district council when that was decided.

The Cornish have emigrated all over the world to give their expertise in mining, and today have vibrant communities as far afield as Australia and New Zealand. They still celebrate their fantastic Cornish pride and heritage in those communities.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I cannot remember whether I picked this up in 1981 when the Deep Sea Mining (Temporary Provisions) Act 1981 was passed by this House, but I think I am right in saying that most of the exploration that has been going on under the international authority is in the central Indian basin of the Indian ocean, and in the northern part of the Pacific ocean, in the Clarion Clipperton zone. If there are Cornish miners there, I send them my best wishes; I hope they are swimming well.

[Sheryll Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. I am sure that they still pride themselves in taking their lunch in the form of a Cornish pasty: the pastry protects what is inside from dirty hands. Pasties are something else that we Cornish people are extremely proud of.

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[Sheryll Murray]

My hon. Friend is partially correct. The Bill is all about exploitation. We have the potential in about five years’ time to start looking at exploitation. It is much better that the United Kingdom should control the licence applications because we must be able to control the environmental situation in which exploitation and exploration are carried out.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

My hon. Friend probably already appreciates that we must change our provisions because the 1981 Act was passed before the establishment of the authority in Kingston, Jamaica, and we must meet our international obligations. It may also be worth observing briefly that economics matter. When some years ago the price of metal commodities was going up, everyone thought that digging down into the oceans would be a good idea. Now that the commodity prices are not quite so high that may not happen, but at some stage the cycle may turn again and we may find some commercial exploitation.

[Sheryll Murray]

We are seeing a shortage of some metals, and the deep sea provides the opportunity to gather metals that are needed, particularly rare earths.

The UK is well placed to influence how deep-sea mining is taken forward, what standards should apply and how to minimise the impact on the environment. In 2012, the UK sponsored its first application to the International Seabed Authority for a UK company to explore for polymetallic nodules in the deep sea in the Pacific ocean, as my hon. Friend mentioned. The application was agreed and a contract was signed between the ISA and the UK company. In 2013, the UK sponsored another application from the same company. That still has to be considered by the ISA council, but the UK Government was able to sponsor and issue a licence to that company under the 1981Act.

[Sheryll Murray]

The 1981 Act predates our signing up to the United Nations convention on the law of the sea, so it is vital that we make these amendments to it.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

Just to clear my mind by using my mouth rather than just my ears, I think this is a very conservative approach. We maintain what we have and we improve it.

[Sheryll Murray]

My hon. Friend is correct.

The UK was able to sponsor and issue a licence to that company under the existing Act, which became valid only upon the issue of a contract by the ISA.

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[Sheryll Murray]

That is correct. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister will be able to expand on that if he speaks.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

In time, my hon. Friend will get to paragraph 9 of the schedule, which states:

“Omit section 9 (the deep sea mining levy) and section 10 (the Deep Sea Mining Fund).”

I think that answers the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies). Instead of money being paid to us for us to pay to the authority, it will go straight to the authority. The licence has to be obtained from the national Government under legislation, but if payments become due, they will go straight to the authority, which cuts out some of the bureaucracy.

[Sheryll Murray]

That is right, and of course this Government want to minimise bureaucracy as much as possible.

[Sheryll Murray]

I know that Secretary of State Clinton and the United States Administration were, as recently as 2012, very keen to sign up to UNCLOS. It is not for me to make a judgment on that—it is up to the USA—but perhaps the Minister will expand on it later.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

Speaking as an historian, I point out that in 1994 the United States got a modification to the convention. Since 1997, even under George W. Bush, the recommendation has been that the United States should sign it. It has not got around to it yet, but I understand that that is its intention. My hon. Friend the Minister will probably cover the issue of whether a US company could apply to another Government for a licence and therefore get the authority indirectly.

[Sheryll Murray]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his expertise and for updating us.

As I have said, the 1981 Act predates the signing of the 1972 UN convention on the law of the sea and, subsequently, the implementing agreement to part 11 of the convention, which relates to deep-sea mining. In some small, niche areas the Act is not entirely consistent with the convention, including with regard to providing for the enforcement of decisions of the sea bed disputes chamber of the international tribunal for the law of the sea. The tribunal was established under the convention, and I am sure that right hon. and hon. Members will agree that it is totally necessary.

Putting our legislation in good order is important for the UK, not least because we are strong proponents of the convention, which defines the rights and obligations of coastal states, including the entitlement to various maritime zones over which different levels of sovereignty may be exercised.

Marine Navigation (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Sheryll Murray and Peter Bottomley

Friday 30th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I do not propose to speak to the amendments on the other clauses, as a way of bowing with respect to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall.

Amendment 9 would insert, on page 3, line 34, the words:

“for the purpose of promoting safety of navigation”.

That is an essential point. My hon. Friend the Minister says that that is not necessary, although when I was having a discussion with my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall I saw references to lobster pots and fishing lines and wondered whether the navigation point had been slightly lost, but that was a letter to her rather than a letter from her, so perhaps we can pass on from that.

The alternative or additional way is to look at amendment 11, which, at the end of line 19, would insert the words:

“(8) An order designating a harbour authority shall not be made unless the Welsh Ministers, the Secretary of State or the Scottish Ministers, as the case may be, are satisfied that the harbour authority has in place appropriate procedures for resolving any disputes that may arise in relation to a proposed harbour direction.”

My hon. Friend the Minister has made a comment on that, as far as he is able to, and we cannot expect him to speak for Welsh or Scottish Ministers, but I think they would be irrational if they did not have the same intention in mind.

Finally, amendment 7 would insert proposed new subsection (3A):

“Section 236(3) to (8) and section 238 of the Local Government Act 1972 apply to all harbour directions made by a designated harbour authority under section 40A and those provisions so applied have effect subject to the modification that for references to byelaws there are substituted references to harbour directions and for references to a local authority there are substituted references to a designated harbour authority.”

It would also insert proposed new subsection (3B):

“The confirming authority for the purposes of section 236 in its application to harbour directions made under section 40A shall be the Secretary of State.”

The point is this: clause 5 will potentially give, not just to existing designated harbour authorities, but to many, many others, the power of creating criminal offences.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will my hon. Friend name any specific prosecutions brought in relation to the 30% of harbour authorities that already have powers of general direction?

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[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I shall think out loud, rather than direct my comments directly to my hon. Friend. If we have three times as many harbour authorities with 100% less experience taking advice from people who will not be the Secretary of State’s advisers, we can anticipate problems.

[Sheryll Murray]

rose—

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

The Bill has to clear in about 60 minutes, so let us pretend that this exchange has concluded there.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will my hon. Friend just accept that there has not been one prosecution to date?

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

I am prepared to accept anything that my hon. Friend says; I just wish she would do the same with me.

Marine Navigation (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Sheryll Murray and Peter Bottomley

Friday 19th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray]

My hon. Friend is right. The problem was identified in 2008 when the Department for Transport conducted a consultation on the issue. It is, therefore, important to get the Bill through and place this provision on to the statute book.

Clauses 8 and 9 relate to general lighthouse authorities of which the UK and Ireland has three: the Northern Lighthouse Board, the Commissioners of Irish Lights, and Trinity House. Each organisation is world renowned in its field, and each has a proud and historic reputation for ensuring the safety of mariners. The general lighthouse authorities already carry out some commercial work, prudently utilising any small amount of spare capacity they may have when that does not affect their day-to-day operational activities. For instance, the Northern Lighthouse Board maintains and monitors many rig watchers, which are used to mark decommissioned oil and gas rigs. The Commissioners of Irish Lights recently won a contract to mark an offshore renewable energy site, the first for them in that field. Trinity House undertakes short vessel charters, where it provides small lifting operations for wind farm sites.

The general lighthouse authorities are innovative in their approach to work, and I want to help them make the most of commercial opportunities when they present themselves. Once enacted, my Bill will enable those three organisations to trade more freely on their reputations of excellence, providing each with greater commercial freedom and enabling them to increase the income they generate through commercial activities. I hope that such action will reduce the call on the shipping industry for funding through the payment of light dues. The other measure on the general lighthouse authorities in the Bill puts beyond doubt their power to provide markings beyond the 12-nautical mile territorial sea limit—a sensible proposal, as I am sure hon. Members will agree.

Clauses 10 and 11 relate to other marine issues. Section 47 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 provides a regulation-making power concerning the minimum number of qualified persons who are required to be carried on ships, and the standards of competence required and conditions to be met to achieve such qualifications. Amendments to those regulations require secondary legislation, which takes up limited time and administrative resources. My Bill will simplify the process for setting manning requirements for ships by enabling secondary legislation to cross-refer to external documents, such as industry or international technical agreements—a practice known as “ambulatory reference” that already applies in other maritime legislation. In practice, references to external documents, which are known within the industry as “M-notices”, are issued by the Secretary of State through the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. They are a well-established means through which the Department for Transport and MCA communicate with stakeholders.

The final substantive clause in my Bill confirms the ability of lighthouse authorities to deploy modern electronic navigational aids to help minimise the risks to mariners and the maritime environment. I must declare a special interest in this area—my son works for a worldwide maritime electronics manufacturer on the technical side, and my daughter uses electronic navigational aids occasionally in her career as a lieutenant commander in the Royal Navy.

In our modern age, electronic aids to navigation are increasingly important to the mariner, who makes great use of satellite navigation systems. In times of emergency, such electronic aids can be used to mark a hazard rapidly, until a more permanent buoy, beacon or other physical aid to navigation can be deployed. The electronic system and the automatic identification system beacons that are fitted to vessels made my personal tragedy last year much easier to deal with—the fishing vessel my husband was on had an AIS transmitter.

That was quite a canter through the contents of my Bill, which I hope the House agrees should be considered in more detail in Committee. The clauses might seem familiar to some hon. Members—most are drawn from the draft Marine Navigation Bill published by the Department for Transport in 2008 and consulted on at that time. The one addition is the extension of the geographic limit of port constables’ jurisdiction, which emerged from a review of ports police forces by the Department for Transport in 2008, as my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) correctly highlighted.

I have carefully read the comments made on the 2008 draft Bill at the time of its publication and discussed the issues raised with interested parties across the maritime industry. My Bill focuses on supporting growth in that industry.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I am grateful to my hon. and brave Friend for introducing the Bill, which in large part is not controversial and will be of assistance. One difference between this Bill and the one that Lord Berkeley introduced in another place is of concern to the Royal Yachting Association, of which I am a member. Is she willing to meet the RYA to discuss its proposed approach to clause 5, which Lord Berkeley agreed to leave out of his Bill? Perhaps we could persuade the Minister to do the same.

[Sheryll Murray]

I would be more than happy to meet the RYA, which I know has concerns about the general rules of direction. I would like to reassure it, and I am sure the Minister will back me up. A number of ports already operate under general rules of direction, which must be consulted on fully before they are in place. If a competent harbour authority does not take note of responses to consultation, it could be subject to judicial review. I should like to meet the RYA—we need to get the clause right.

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[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

The House is grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) for sharing her expertise on the important work done by the police linked to harbours. We all agree that my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) is doing a service to the nation and to those who use our harbours and ports. I will not repeat what we have heard about her expertise and involvement, but I pay tribute to her. I also welcome the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), who we have heard was at the memorial service for our former colleague Malcolm Wicks, who was the kind of person who gave politics and political service a good name.

I have no intention of delaying the Bill and want to see it on the statute book. There has clearly been bipartisan agreement about it for some time. Its purposes are necessary and the changes are sensible. I do not think that there is a serous objection to anything in particular, other than the need to sort out what was not clear to the constituent of the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller), which is that clause 2(1) is an amendment to an Act that is very clear about the person who holds a pilot certificate or is recognised as a competent pilot for one or more vessels. That is a strong and necessary provision that is being continued. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for raising the point about clause 5, which I will like to speak about shortly.

My maritime experience was gained when I worked my passage back from Brisbane to Liverpool, working 16 hours a day on a 7,000-tonne freighter. Given some of our experiences while crossing the Australian bight, I have a respect for those who go to sea in all weathers, especially on long journeys, and the fishermen who put up with whatever the weather throws at them. At some stage I might write half a chapter for my unread and unwritten autobiography about what can happen when 82 people are on a vessel for seven weeks. Nowadays there would be about 17 people, so half the things that happened would not happen now.

I also think that it is about time we got back to recognising—this is a brief diversion—some of our great maritime stories. I think that the works of Joseph Conrad should be brought back and given the same importance as the present Man Booker nominees, as should those of Somerset Maugham and Erskine Childers, who wrote “The Riddle of the Sands”, which, although written as a warning about possible threats of war, is I think one of the most evocative books ever written about the sea and about sailing, and certainly the most evocative I have read.

I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister to his responsibilities and congratulate him on how he has already approached these issues in being willing to intervene in the debate and to say that he will happily meet those with concerns about particular parts of the Bill. That will make a difference.

I am a life member of the Royal Yachting Association, partly to avoid its spotting how bad a sailor I am and saying that it will not renew my membership unless I take another course. The RYA knows perfectly well that when there is an issue that I think it has not got right, I will pursue it, as I did at the last annual general meeting; I pay tribute to how it has responded since.

We have to look at the reasons for its concerns. Nobody expects that the navigation or harbour authorities are going to do anything silly or daft. They carry out their responsibilities in providing navigation aids and controlling safety in and around their harbours in a way that is much appreciated, whether by leisure sailors, commercial traffic or the fishing industry. When I was agriculture Minister in the Northern Ireland Office, one of the happiest times I had was going out fishing from Kilkeel at midnight on one of those very calm nights when the water reflected the moon. Those who smoked had a fag and then pulled in their nets, and about 4 tonnes of fish were landed. It was one of those magical evenings where one can understand the allure of the sea.

My Friend the Minister may say, as no doubt his predecessor will have said before the change of Government, that if an authority is going to do something that is clearly irrational there is the opportunity for a judicial review. Whenever a port authority needs to make an emergency provision, no one is going to argue with its doing so—safety comes first, and there is usually a reason for it.

The issues that come up for consultation are those which will have permanent effect or might create a new criminal offence. There may be a judicial review if the authority, either by its own choice or because it is following a pattern created by other port and harbour authorities, is ignoring the legitimate interests of other people.

[Sheryll Murray]

It is intended that before any competent harbour authority introduced harbour revision orders or general rules of direction it would consult all users of the area. In Plymouth, the Queen’s harbourmaster has authority over the port of Plymouth, but we have two other major ports in Plymouth sound—Associated British Ports at Millbay docks, and Cattewater harbour, which takes in a tremendous amount of fuel to serve the south-west. We have Brittany ferries using the Millbay docks area, and we have our naval base and dockyard. I am absolutely certain that the Queen’s harbourmaster would not introduce any general rules of direction without consulting Associated British Ports and the Cattewater harbourmaster. In fact, they regularly sit on a committee called the Tamar estuaries consultative forum, which takes account of every interested party before starting to make any rules.

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[Sir Peter Bottomley]

We are making progress, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend.

I assure my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall that I will not take all that long, but to aid the process I point out that a number of individual authorities have obtained powers of general direction over the years, starting at the time of les événements, when the permissive society was invented in 1968. Such powers of direction have generally taken the place of byelaws. Unlike directions under clause 5, which harbour authorities could issue, byelaws have to be confirmed by the Secretary of State and are subject to what most people would regard as clear checks and balances in addition to consultation. The current byelaw process involves consultation, so there is nothing new about that. The consultation element is in place already and will remain. The question is about the checks and balances that exist. I am not thinking of accusing any harbour authority of having malevolent wishes towards recreational users or other classes of ship.

I pay tribute to what the RYA does in training young people on the water in motor vessels and sailing craft. It has become a better and better organisation that does more and more good for more people, and if other organisations could do the same thing by training up the young and helping them to become first assistants and then qualified instructors, there would be far more value and purpose among our people on land as well as at sea.

The RYA has become increasingly concerned in recent years about the potential of powers of general direction to be exercised indiscriminately and in a manner that is unnecessary and harmful to the lawful exercise of recreational and other rights. Not every campaign the RYA takes up is wrong—in fact, nearly every campaign I have seen it run was right, and I admire the way in which it works with the British Marine Federation. They provide in partnership, without overlap, a seamless approach to the law and the use of our waters.

Let me give a list of some of the questions considered by the RYA about the powers of general direction, and whether they are fully merited. There are some powers that everyone can accept, but whether they are sufficiently merited to be unqualified or without the moderation that I hope the Minister will mention is a matter for debate.

Making general directions involves the creation of new criminal offences, which local harbour authorities may be seen as ill-equipped to do. Even democratically elected local authorities, in their other roles, do not normally have powers to create criminal offences, and the Bill contains none of the supervisory safeguards usually imposed on law-making bodies. This may be political theology or philosophy, but why should a harbour authority be different from a local authority?

The powers of general direction can be seen as running counter to the Government’s localism policy by granting an unelected harbour authority law-making powers that are not subjected to democratic checks and balances and full transparency. Most of us could argue that because harbour authorities exist for a particular purpose, and because those who are appointed to harbour authorities are there to provide expertise and a contribution, we should not be too worried about that. One should put it on the record that those people are not democratically elected, and the localism agenda is not just about saying that we are not going to do things in Whitehall—or in my day, the Department for Transport on Marsham street—but that things will be done locally by locally elected people. I do not criticise the harbour authorities for not being elected, but there is a distinction.

Under the power, general directions could be made over the wide areas used by recreational and commercial traffic in a disproportionate manner, without proper risk assessment or consideration of the full implications or possible alternatives. They could be used to impose significant and potentially burdensome restrictions on the navigational use of recreational craft. Many harbour authorities have jurisdiction over substantial areas going out to sea, not just partially enclosed harbour areas. Again, I do not want any hon. Member who arrives late to the debate to think that I am attacking the harbour authorities. I am just asking what protections there could be, and whether we need a system in which the potential for things to go wrong could be anticipated and perhaps built into the legislation.

There have been past examples—this is not about harbour authorities and harbour revision orders—where some in government picked up the idea, wrongly in my view, that small recreational craft could start contributing to light dues. We all get the benefit from navigation, but how on earth do we get a person—me in my Mirror dinghy, or one of my sons, daughters or granddaughters in their craft—to contribute to that? There is a question of where to draw the line, but at some stage it must be drawn some way away from ordinary recreational craft that might, under this legislation, be regarded as ships.

[Sheryll Murray]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the measure in the Bill to allow Trinity House to become more competitive and raise its own income will to some extent relieve the burden of light dues on the industry, or at least prevent the annual increase?

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

Yes, and were this a slightly different debate I would be paying tribute to Trinity House for what it does.

I have two more points on this general issue. Prior consultation has been suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall, and by our hon. Friend the Minister, but we must ask whether that is an adequate safeguard. Experience shows that across the public and private sectors, inappropriate or flawed decisions sometimes follow prior consultation. We can get things wrong, whatever hat we wear.

Because reference was made to judicial review, we must ask whether it is an adequate remedy against an objectionable direction when powers are expressed without significant limitations, as in clause 5. We can presume that any procedural or substantive illegality to provide for a cause for action is highly unlikely, and an authority could just say, “I’ve consulted. I’m not convinced. I’m not going change my mind.”

The adjudication procedure, which the Minister might talk about, could allow interested people to require, in limited circumstances, the harbour authority to obtain an independent report on issues arising before deciding to proceed, to ensure that the designated harbour authority’s case for the exercise of the power includes recreational interest concerns, and to ensure that it is fully explained and documented, and subject to independent and objective examination.

Clearly, the designated harbour authority would retain ultimate discretion and authority to proceed with proposed directions having considered the independent person’s report. A decision by the designated harbour authority would be open to legal challenge only if it is patently perverse to allow it to proceed, when the courts and judicial review become involved. The fact that concerns me is that the cost of formal legal proceedings and getting a fair hearing would act as a spur to persuade interested bodies, including the RYA and other stakeholder interests, to accept decisions. As I said earlier, if a direction is issued in an emergency, the consultation could not take place, although the procedure may be applied retrospectively if the direction given in an emergency or at short notice is likely to turn into a permanent or long-standing requirement.

I am advised that the procedure has been applied under the Broads Authority Act 2009, which is a precedent. Hon. Members are keen on precedents, although the House of Commons has “Erskine May”, which is full of things that had not happened before or that were blocked for the first time. A similar provision is included in the recently published draft Cowes harbour revision order, but the Poole Harbour Revision Order 2012 was made without such a provision, because, as I understand it, the Poole Harbour Commissioners objected to its inclusion. The RYA makes it clear that such a provision provides a worthwhile, and some would say essential, safeguard that ought to be applied more generally. I agree. The RYA expressed its concerns to representatives of the port industry and the Government before the 2010 general election in response to the Government’s consultation on a draft maritime navigation Bill in 2008.

Clearly, the Bill has been improved by that consultation, and I hope it will be improved as a result of my remarks. I am grateful to the House for listening to me with kindness, but more importantly, for listening with admiration to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall.