Tunisia, and European Council

Debate between Shabana Mahmood and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend always puts his case very powerfully. In many ways, what this shows is that it is possible to have different sorts of membership of the European Union. We are not a member of the euro or of Schengen, but when it comes to co-operation over foreign and security policy, it is often Britain that is in the lead—whether it is arguing for sanctions against Iran, sanctions against Russia or a better co-ordination of counter-terrorism policies within the EU. We should not be frightened of different forms of membership. As I have put it, Europe should have the flexibility of a network rather than the rigidity of a bloc.

[Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)]

May I join others in expressing my shock and sadness at the horrific events in Sousse? Our thoughts and prayers go out to those who have lost loved ones. I welcome the steps that the Government are taking to offer support and assistance to the families at this time.

The Prime Minister has been speaking about the challenge of confronting ISIL— Daesh—and its ideology, and I agree that that is the task ahead of us, but how we do it is a matter for debate. The thrust of the Prime Minister’s comments today and last week are that, as part of dealing with symptoms and causes, British Muslims must step up and call out those who are silently condoning extremist ideologies, but does he agree that most ordinary British Muslims, among whom I count myself, have no more knowledge and ability to step up to the plate and call out in that way than any other ordinary British person? Furthermore, does he agree that it will be from an acceptance of our combined lack of understanding of where we need to step up to the plate that we can better work together to find a solution?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Lady for the thoughtful way in which she put her question. My answer is that British Muslims, Imams, mosques, community centres and Muslims in our communities are stepping up and saying that they condemn utterly what ISIL does and saying that it is not in their name. Indeed #NotInMyName was praised by President Obama in his speech at the UN. My argument is, I am afraid, that we all have to go on doing that—British Muslims included—for as long as this poisonous ideology exists. I say to British Muslims that, the fact is, these people are taking their religion of peace and perverting it. That is the reason for standing up and saying, “You must not do this. This is not what we believe in or what we are about.” The British Government, who include Muslims in their number, will back all Muslims who do that.

My second point is that we would be making a mistake if we said that we need just to confront those who support violence. Some people and some organisations—frankly, we know which organisations—go along with some of the narrative, think that a caliphate might not be such a bad idea, that Christians and Muslims cannot really live together and that democracy is inferior to another sort of system, and do not believe in equality. Those are people that we must call out, too. I want us to appeal to young British Muslims about what this country can be for them. This is a great multiracial democracy and a country of opportunity and we must also raise our game, as it were, and make this a society into which people want to integrate. It is time to speak out on both fronts. There is a need for integration, but also the need to confront a narrative of extremism, even if it stops short of violence.