Government Plan for Net Zero Emissions

Debate between Sarah Newton and Caroline Lucas

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Westminster Hall

[Sarah Newton]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point: the changes needed are substantial and it is really important that people understand why we need to do what we need to and that we take people with us. We can do that largely by providing information not only about the why, but about the how. In my experience, most people are waiting for that information, because they understand the challenge and want to play their part.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this important debate and on her Bill. Many of us believe that 2050 is not soon enough and would like to go further and faster, but irrespective of the target and the speed, does she agree that, precisely to bring people along with us, there is a role to be played by citizens’ assemblies? This is an opportunity for people to come together and work together to identify how best to make the transition.

[Sarah Newton]

I am glad that the hon. Lady has mentioned the target. The groundbreaking Climate Change Act 2008, which is unique to our country in having all-party support, set up the independent Committee on Climate Change. All Governments depend on evidence and the best science to show what we can do. The independent Committee on Climate Change says that the 2050 target is the right target: it is ambitious but feasible, whereas the 2030 target is not necessary and not deliverable. We risk undermining the very independence of the Committee on Climate Change and the evidence-based policy-making approach that we must take if we start to pluck numbers out of thin air for political gain.

Energy Bill [Lords]

Debate between Sarah Newton and Caroline Lucas

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas]

Thank you. I commend to the hon. Gentleman the report of the all-party parliamentary group, which was co-chaired by myself and the hon. Member for Southampton, Test, as it contains all the detail in it. Off the top of my head, I cannot remember the overall number of years, but my essential point is that both for attacking fuel poverty and for environmental rigour, it makes more sense to target all the ECO resources for at least the first three years on low-income, vulnerable households, including those living in solid-wall and hard-to-heat properties, rather than trying to separate out the ECO into hard-to-treat homes that might belong to able-to-pay groups. A focus for at least three years solely on low-income and vulnerable households would have stronger fuel poverty and environmental outcomes.

Let us not forget that the Government are still bound by their statutory commitments to the eradication of fuel poverty in England by 2016. If that objective is to be met, we need significant additional resources for programmes that will improve heating and insulation standards in dwellings occupied by those households. An impoverished Exchequer, a coalition Government who are averse to high taxation and a policy of funding a range of programmes through levies on consumer bills can only exacerbate the appalling scale of fuel poverty. I think we need a major investment in a national programme to improve domestic energy efficiency, giving priority, as I say, to those in greatest need.

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady accept that the Government are taking other measures? For example, in the recently published public health paper, the eradication of fuel poverty is highlighted as a public health outcome for the very first time. If health and wellbeing boards are established, they will play a critical role, and they will have additional funds to target on this issue. There is already very good partnership working in such counties as Cornwall—between Community Energy Plus and the local authority, for example—and it is targeting precisely the households that the hon. Lady mentions. That is another way of tackling fuel poverty.

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. I welcome the fact that health and wellbeing boards are now interested in fuel poverty, although whether that will bring significant new resources into play is another question. I hope that the hon. Lady is right, but I am not convinced that she is, or at least that there will be enough resources without hypothecation of some of the revenue sources from emissions trading and so forth.

New clause 18 would allow fuel poverty and energy efficiency programmes to be better targeted at those in greatest need through the sharing of data between the Government and energy companies, with all due consideration for privacy and data protection issues. I believe that such improved targeting would also reduce wasteful administration costs, which have been estimated at about £120 per household. Money spent on trying to identify low-income and vulnerable consumers would be much better spent on helping them out of poverty.

I strongly support amendments 2 to 5, tabled by the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington and signed by me. I had tabled similar amendments to improve clause 42, but withdrew them to support those tabled by the hon. Gentleman.