Sandra Osborne
Main Page: Sandra Osborne (Labour - Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Sandra Osborne Excerpts
Mr Umunna
I am not sure exactly which proposal the hon. Gentleman thinks it is worth having a look at. If he is talking about the proposal to allow no-fault dismissal in firms of fewer than 10 employees—which I believe is what he spoke about earlier—the answer is no. I do not agree that it is worth looking at, partly because there is no evidence that having no-fault dismissal encourages or helps firms to grow, as was previously made clear in business questions by the Minister responsible for employment relations, the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb).
I do not deny that employment law and regulation more generally are matters of concern for small businesses. It would be absurd of me to make such a claim, and I am not making it. However, it is the state of our economy that has been consistently identified by small and medium-sized enterprises as the main barrier to their success. We know this because that is what they have been telling Ministers. In the Government’s latest “SME Business Barometer”—which I think the Secretary of State mentioned earlier—32% of SME employers said that the state of the economy was the main obstacle to the success of their business, followed by issues such as cash flow, taxation and finance. Just 7% cited regulation as the main obstacle to their success.
Let me be absolutely clear: we on this side of the House will not countenance watering down the rights that every constituent of every Member of this House enjoys in the name of growth. I should also note that Conservative Members—nobody has made this comment today, but they have before—have been keen to present this as solely a union issue. It is not: it affects just about every working person in this country, regardless of whether they are a member of a trade union. While everyone else has been worrying about losing their job—thanks to the Government’s economic incompetence in my view—their rights at work have, frankly, been used as a political football in the Government, among Departments and between the two governing parties. That does nothing to dispel the overall impression of shambles that hangs over the Government. However, Minsters and those who have been briefing the media on their behalf should also reflect on the huge worry that such briefing on employment law is generating among those who work in our businesses, with all the talk of further liberalising our labour market, which is one of the most liberalised labour markets in the western world.
Richard Fuller
I appreciate the intervention, but I am not as clear as the hon. Gentleman is about those particular statistics and I am not sure that they paint the correct picture for the United Kingdom. The shadow Secretary of State cited the World Bank earlier when he looked at the overall statistics on doing business and said that they had—surprisingly—got better under the previous Government. If we look at the same World Bank statistics and the issues to do with the labour markets, we find that this country declined from 17th to 34th position in the period from 2007 to 2010. In terms of the need for change in the labour markets, it has been shown that we need to get a little better.
Richard Fuller
Very briefly; I, like others, will not then use up more time.
Sandra Osborne
Statistics are extremely interesting, but what is the connection between what the hon. Gentleman is talking about and no-fault dismissal? Where is the evidence for that?
Richard Fuller
Many people look at the “dismissal” part of no-fault dismissal, whereas for Government Members and some Opposition Members the other part is how willing employers are to take someone on when they understand what the risks may be of having to hold on to them. That is the connection. My focus is not on the fear of what might happen in firing situations, which has rightly been expressed by Opposition Members, but on dead-weight costs and the number of people who have not been hired because employers are not prepared to take the risk with their businesses. All hon. Members and all businesses are concerned about achieving growth. To achieve growth, businesses need certainty, but equally they need to have certainty that any additional staff they hire will work out well. For a small business of three, four, five or 10 employees, hiring one person is an incredibly big decision. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) said about a business in her constituency, such costs have a significant impact on cash flow and perhaps viability.
For those reasons, I hope that in Committee we can look again at the issues that Adrian Beecroft has raised, although I think the Secretary of State has dismissed them. I hope we do so by saying, “We aren’t yet sure what the right answer is, but we are not going to be put off by scaremongering tactics.” We need to understand whether such proposals will have an impact.
Those are the main issues. If we are to achieve growth in our country’s economy, it must be founded on a better approach to getting people back to work quickly. We do not have the answers from our recovery from recessions of the recent past. I believe that making it easier for people to understand the risk involved when they hire people will be a major step forward in that regard.
Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller), although I do not agree with him. I do not deny that there could be reform of, for example, the tribunal system, but no-fault dismissal is an attack on workers’ rights. That is not, as some say, a misunderstanding on the part of the public. My constituents know when their rights are under attack, especially when they are already worried about employment stability. The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills has ruled out proposals on no-fault dismissal in the Bill, and I hope that the Minister reaffirms that in his winding-up speech.
I welcome the green investment bank, particularly as it will be based in Edinburgh. I am sure that my fellow Scots will have the good sense to realise that that and many other aspects are good reasons why we should remain part of the United Kingdom as opposed to being separate.
Having said that, I shall try to keep my speech short and concentrate on clause 51, which is so important to the Secretary of State that he mentioned it only in response to an intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna). I do not agree with the Secretary of State; it is an important measure. It is not, as he said, just a tidying-up exercise.
The clause removes powers from and reduces the duties of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which was set up by the Equality Act 2006 as an independent statutory body and regulator. It is responsible for enforcing equality legislation on age, disability, gender, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation, or transgender status, and for encouraging compliance with the Human Rights Act 1998. It has a duty to challenge prejudice and disadvantage and promote the importance of human rights. It works to reduce inequality, eliminate discrimination and strengthen good relations between people.
According to the Government, that apparently means that the EHRC is biased, which goes to show how shallow their grasp is of the serious, endemic problem of discrimination in our society, and how little commitment they have to tackling it. Perhaps that is why the Business Secretary did not bother to mention it apart from in response to an intervention.
Undertaking those functions effectively requires proper funding and the retention of the EHRC’s full legal remit. We know that the Government have had it in for the EHRC for some time and have sought to undermine it, but that is not to say that there have not been problems. It is a new and innovative organisation, and to some extent such problems are to be expected. In my Westminster Hall debate only a few weeks ago, I highlighted the EHRC’s 62% budget cut and 72% cut to staffing by 2015 from the original 2007 level. The cuts to its resources and remit almost annihilate the commission, and render it little more than a talking shop.
That is a great pity, because the establishment of the EHRC was groundbreaking. Legislation to outlaw discrimination has existed for more than 40 years, but, typically, new Acts have focused on one area of policy—for example, on pay, equal treatment of women or race discrimination. The body of law was introduced in a piecemeal way over a long period and developed inconsistencies. The 2006 Act harmonised existing law in a more coherent whole and introduced new requirements. It was subject to extensive pre-legislative scrutiny and had support from civil society and had all-party support. Having sat through the proceedings, I can say that the Liberal Democrats continually lectured the then Government on how the measures did not go far enough, and said how keen they were on the public sector equality duty, which is now up for review.
Consensus was achieved on the introduction of the Act, but the Government’s so-called consultation on building a fairer Britain was a bit of a farce. They have ignored the majority of responses which, by their own admission, were against the changes they propose.
The socio-economic duty is not currently in force, but its repeal is a political totem for the Conservative party, which has always opposed it. Everyone knows that socio-economic duties are not the Conservative party’s thing, but the Minister for Equalities, a Liberal Democrat, also took part in proceedings on the 2006 Act. At that time, she thought the socio-economic duty was so important that there should be separate legislation to deal with socio-economic issues. Will the Minister tell us when the Government will introduce such legislation?
The Government want to repeal the general duty in the Act because they say it has no specific legal purpose and does not help to clarify the precise functions that the EHRC is required to carry out. Not surprisingly, many do not agree with that. It is a purpose clause that sets out the broad goals and underlying principles of the legislation. The Government have admitted that the majority of respondents to their consultation were opposed to repeal by nearly six to one, and were concerned about losing the guiding principles and values set out in the general duties as debated in the House during the passage of the Act.
The Joint Committee on Human Rights at that time agreed with those principles, as did other hon. Members, including the then Member for Daventry, now Lord Boswell, who said:
“I have no difficulty at all with the general duty in clause 3 —that is what most of us are in politics for.”—[Official Report, 21 November 2005; Vol. 439, c. 1331.]
I know that to be true of him from the many contributions he made in this House, but it is not true of the coalition.
The purpose clause on the socio-economic duty is about values. Crucially, it illustrates how our society views, and attaches importance to, matters of equality. It is a pity that the French experience will now be superior to ours. The French have adopted the duty in legislation but, unlike us, are not cutting back when it comes to carrying it out.
I sat through proceedings on the 2006 Act. Hon. Members will have realised that I have strong feelings about these issues, so I shall cut my speech short. Clause 51 is not a tidying-up measure; it takes us backwards. It should not be supported and it should not be in the Bill in the first place.