National Insurance (Contributions) Bill

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 10th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) said that she is not yet suffering from review fatigue; I wish I could say the same. I note that much of this debate also took place in Committee and I am tempted simply to refer the House to my speech on 21 November. However, I think that that would not be quite the appropriate thing to do, so let me address the points on the new clauses.

Let me make the case, as I did in Committee, for why new clause 1 is unnecessary. The tax information impact note already commits the Government to keep the scheme under review through ongoing communication with taxpayers’ groups affected by the measure. Moreover, in Committee on 21 November, I agreed that the Government should publish information twice a year about the overall take-up of the employment allowance, including by geographical location. I am happy to repeat that commitment today.

Nevertheless, as with the hon. Lady’s previous amendment in Committee, this new clause focuses in particular on the number of jobs created by the employment allowance. As I made clear on Second Reading on 4 November, and in the evidence session on 19 November, although the employment allowance will clearly reduce the cost of taking on new staff for small businesses and charities, it will be up to those businesses and charities to decide how they use the resulting national insurance contribution savings.

The hon. Lady will also recall the comments made by both the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the Federation of Small Businesses at the evidence session on 19 November that it is impossible to get precise numbers. We cannot conduct the equivalent of a randomised trial of tax policy to determine the number of jobs created because of the allowance because, as the IFS pointed out, there is no counterfactual, as there are a number of factors in the economy influencing the number of jobs at the same time. The Government have not set a target for the number of jobs we expect to be created, although as we have previously noted, survey evidence from the Federation of Small Businesses suggests that 28% of such businesses will use the savings to employ additional staff. Therefore, as I made clear in Committee, it would not be possible to provide information about the number of jobs created as a direct result of this measure.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Although I understand the Minister’s position, given all the variables that will determine the number of people employed as a result of any change, it will nevertheless result in about £1.75 billion left with employers and not coming into the Exchequer as tax. Does he not feel, therefore, that there is at least some need to judge the effectiveness of a policy that will release a substantial amount of money?

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: the measure will release substantial amounts of money and a considerable amount of revenue will be forgone. We believe that taking less from employers is likely to have an impact on employment, wages or investment, or a combination of the three, all of which will be welcomed. However, tempting though it might be to call for a particular number of jobs to be created from the measure, I do not believe, for the reasons I have outlined—because there are so many factors in play—that we could give such a number with the necessary degree of robustness. Some 28% of the businesses surveyed by the FSB said they would use the savings to employ additional staff, while 29% would use the NICs savings to boost staff wages. Again, it would be difficult to quantify the precise effect, given that wage levels are subject to many different pressures, which vary from business to business.

The new clause also seeks an assessment of HMRC’s strategy to promote the employment allowance. HMRC has already been proactive in promoting the allowance, having spoken to various interested parties over the summer, including representatives of software providers, charities and small and medium-sized enterprises about the design and operation of the measure. There is continuing engagement between HMRC and those interested parties on guidance for employers and publicity. As a result of those discussions, communications to raise awareness of the employment allowance will begin more widely in February and March 2014, to maximise the impact in the crucial period running up to the introduction of the allowance next April, using a range of HMRC publications and products and the Department’s national network of local “working together” groups. As a result, we are confident that employers across the UK will be ready to claim the allowance next April, and those efforts to support take-up will continue after April.

[Sammy Wilson]

Does the Minister accept that there is at least some value both in looking at the geographical take-up, especially given how patchy the national insurance holiday has been across the United Kingdom—indeed, take-up in Northern Ireland was quite disappointing—and in monitoring how effective the promotion of the scheme has been in different parts of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Gauke]

Let me return to my earlier remarks and the commitment I made in Committee, which I have repeated this afternoon, that we will publish take-up numbers twice-yearly. That information will be provided on a regional basis, which I hope reassures the hon. Gentleman that he will be able to monitor take-up in Northern Ireland.

The other point I would make—again, it is a point I made in Committee and on Second Reading—is that there are a number of distinctions between the employment allowance and the NICs holiday that we had in place earlier in this Parliament and, indeed, the Opposition’s proposals for a NICs holiday. What we are proposing is a much easier policy for employers to implement; in fact, it is largely automatic. Those with an up-to-date payroll—that essentially applies to nearly every employer—will find that the employment allowance is automatically applied. Those employers essentially just need to click on a box and then it should work.

Given those reassurances and in the light of my existing agreement to make information about take-up available twice yearly, I hope that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood will withdraw her new clause.

Let me deal with the hon. Lady’s new clause 2, which seeks to require HMRC

“after six months of the Act coming into force”

to “prepare a review” to be published in Parliament. Such a review should consider

“whether there are any administrative or compliance costs”

reported by employers claiming the employment allowance, and

“whether businesses, charities and sports clubs are having any problems in claiming the…allowance.”

The new clause is unnecessary for two reasons. As I have pointed out, the tax information impact note already commits the Government to keep the scheme under review through the communication of stakeholders affected by the measure. As part of this review, HMRC will speak to interested parties to gauge their view of the employment allowance and to ascertain the ways it has been used.

As I said, HMRC talked over the summer to various interested parties, including software developers, charities and small and medium-sized businesses, about the design and operation of the allowance, including the claims process. There are continuing discussions between HMRC and these groups around the guidance and publicity, and they will continue after the launch of the employment allowance next April. These contacts between HMRC and relevant representative groups will provide the basis for a continuous review of the way in which the allowance is working. I acknowledged in Committee that hon. Members will relay any concerns or thoughts about the allowance on behalf of employers in their own constituency. Hon. Members will also recall the commitment I gave in Committee to publish the information twice yearly, as I mentioned. That in itself will provide an indication of the ease with which employers are able to claim the benefit of this relief.

As I pointed out earlier this afternoon, the employment allowance will be very easy to claim. Employers will receive it through the routine operation of PAYE—pay as you earn. Employers will simply need to confirm their eligibility by their regular payroll processes. Enabling the employment allowance to be claimed by employers through the payroll software will ensure that it is straightforward to claim. Employers simply have to indicate yes once in their EPS—employer payment summary—and the claim will continue from tax year to tax year.

After making the claim, employers will not need to pay their first £2,000 of secondary class 1 national insurance contributions if their liability is lower than £2,000 in the first month or quarter—depending on whether the employer pays his PAYE liabilities monthly or quarterly—and any unused allowance will be carried forward to the next month or quarter until it is exhausted. If an employer does not have an employer payment summary on their software, the free HMRC basic PAYE tools package can be used. For the small number—about 2,000—of eligible employers who still submit their returns to HMRC on paper, there will be a paper process to mirror the IT process.

With those reassurances, I hope that the hon. Lady will withdraw her new clause.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson]

I want to make a short contribution to the debate, because I think that the Government are introducing an important measure. In this House we often discuss the macro-economic steps that can be taken, such as huge injections of money for infrastructure development and so on, but often—we have certainly found this in Northern Ireland—micro-interventions can be very effective in creating employment, improving conditions for employers and giving them greater confidence to invest. I believe that the measure will have that impact.

I, too, am a little disappointed that the measure’s full impact will be delayed until 2015, because I believe that unemployment among young people, especially in Northern Ireland, is a huge problem that we are trying to tackle. Once the measure is fully in place by 2015, I think that it will have a dramatic impact and will provide a big incentive for employers to take on younger people.

We must not underestimate the importance of even small amounts of money—£2,000, for instance—in influencing the decisions of some employers. One measure that was introduced back home in Northern Ireland was a 20% business rate relief for employers with a net annual value of less that £15,000. The maximum amount of money any one business received was probably £3,000, yet the feedback from employers on the impact was quite encouraging. Therefore, although some people might say that it is a small amount of money per employer initially, nevertheless I think that it will have that positive impact.

I take the Minister’s point about the difficulty in measuring how many extra jobs and how many new businesses the measure will create, but it is bound to encourage employers to hold on to existing employees, to take on an extra employee, to have a better cash flow situation, which might get them over a particular difficulty, or to invest some more money in improving their business. That is the important point.

There is one thing I am concerned about, because the national insurance holiday did not have the impact we had expected, certainly in Northern Ireland. Indeed, uptake was very low. I take the point that at least the process has now been simplified, which means that it will be much easier for employers to access it. Of course, the more universal we make these things, the wider their impact. However, I hope that the measure’s effectiveness will be monitored constantly and that, if it is seen not to have had the impact that the Government had hoped, there will be a willingness to look at what could be done to improve it.

I congratulate the Government on the measure, which I believe is another important tool in the economic toolbox. I believe that it will have a positive impact.