Energy Prices

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

Whatever we do in public policy, the important thing is always to see whether it is hitting the mark and working as best it can. Does that mean that policies always stay the same? No, it does not.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for calling me his right hon. Friend, but I must challenge him and the Secretary of State over Labour’s record on supporting families coping with their energy needs. I challenge the Secretary of State to deny that the Decent Homes programme, which involved the modernisation of 1.5 million homes, reduced energy consumption. I defy him to say that the code for sustainable homes did not improve the energy efficiency of new properties. I defy him to say that Warm Front did not reduce energy bills for more than 2 million households. I also defy him to say that the car scrappage scheme did not remove hundreds of thousands of old cars from Britain’s roads and replace them with more fuel-efficient vehicles with lower emissions. I challenge him to own up to the House today to the fact that the regulations that his Government are introducing, seven months after they were required, arise from the third energy package agreed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North when he was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. Yes, it was Labour that agreed the legal agreement across the European Union to make the gas and electricity markets more competitive, to give new powers to the regulator, to reveal the financial records of the energy giants and to put in place a more competitive market that new suppliers could enter. The role of this Government, 18 months into office, is to delay the process of implementation.

Perhaps the Secretary of State is not just the Prime Minister’s meerkat; perhaps he is also the Chancellor’s poodle. Following the Osborne doctrine, which states, “We are going to cut our carbon emissions no slower, but no faster, than other countries in Europe”, perhaps he now believes that, as the Chancellor said,

“a decade of environmental laws and regulations are piling costs on the energy bills of households and companies.”

Perhaps that is why, this week, the Secretary of State failed to stand up to companies over pricing, why he failed to express the anger that the public feel towards the energy giants, and why he meekly agreed to let the energy giants pledge not to raise their prices over the winter only after they had already increased them.

People expect, and deserve, a Government with the courage to stand up to powerful vested interests. This Government cannot even stand up to their own Back Benchers. A survey last year showed that, in spite of the overwhelming scientific consensus, one third of Tory MPs are climate change deniers who doubt the existence of climate change and its link to human activity. As ever, we are particularly grateful to the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) for the expertise that she brings to all matters scientific. On Monday, she solved an issue that has evaded scientists for generations when she told Radio 5:

“You can’t put solar panels on children’s shoes.”

I am glad that that thorny issue has been resolved once and for all, but this is all part of the background to the comments of the Chancellor at the Tory party conference, when he openly attacked low-carbon businesses to get cheap applause from Tory delegates. The truth is that this Government are not only out of touch but wedded to an out-of-date orthodoxy which, for too long, has allowed the City and companies such as the privatised electricity suppliers to do what they want at the expense of everyone else.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

I note what the right hon. Lady has said about her support for the Climate Change Act 2008, but will she spell out for us what the cost of the renewables obligation has been for electricity consumers in the United Kingdom this year?

[Caroline Flint]

What will be the cost if we rely on fossil fuels for ever more? What difficulties would that create, in terms not only of fuel costs but of security of supply? I refer the hon. Gentleman to a report that I believe came from both Ofgem and the Department of Energy and Climate Change last year, which outlined that something less than 5% of the price of bills was connected to investment in renewables. Of course we have to look for a balance, but I am focusing on something that we should all be concerned about. Even the Government have admitted that people are paying too high a price for their bills because these tariffs are sold in a misleading way so that people do not get a decent deal. On top of that, we have only the six big energy giants in the market, which needs to be broken up and radically reformed. That is something we should focus our attention on, along with help to people and businesses to make their homes and businesses more energy-efficient so they can pull down the costs of energy over time. There is no going back, however, to an old system of energy supply; that will not help anyone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

I am pleased to take part in what I believe is a timely debate. There is general concern about the size of the energy bills that are hitting people right across the country. This is happening in the context of rising profits for the energy companies, while—despite what the global warmists are saying—we are increasingly having cold winters, which mean an increase in people’s energy bills.

As I have said, the debate is timely because there is a general feeling that the Government may not be giving these matters the priority that they deserve. When a Secretary of State dismisses the problem by saying, “Well, phone around and find out what the alternative costs are”, when energy companies are given a slap on the wrist but there is no real outcome, and when we are told, “Just grin and bear it, because some of this has to be done to save the world”, it is understandable that people should detect a degree of complacency.

This is a particular issue for us in Northern Ireland. First, the profits of Northern Ireland Electricity have risen by 68% over the past year, which is commensurate with the increases in the profits of the big energy companies in Great Britain. Secondly, energy prices in Northern Ireland are about 14% higher than the average in Great Britain. Thirdly, fuel poverty in Northern Ireland is well in excess of the average in the rest of the United Kingdom, affecting 43.7% of households in comparison with the UK average of 21%.

[Jim Shannon]

My constituents spend 10% of their incomes on fuel, and 44% of them are experiencing fuel poverty. Strangford has the second highest level of fuel poverty in Northern Ireland. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government’s decision to reduce the winter allowance will have an unfair impact on people in Northern Ireland, as against the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Sammy Wilson]

Yes, and I shall say more about that later.

Part of the problem is a direct result of Government policies that have an impact on households and businesses throughout the United Kingdom. About 50% of those who are in fuel poverty in Northern Ireland are over 60, but just as worrying is the fact that 27% of those who will find it difficult to pay their fuel bills—who will be, as we loosely term it, in fuel poverty—are in work. They are going out every day to do their business, and their wages are so low that they still find it difficult to pay. That is another reason for my belief that the debate is timely and will resonate throughout the United Kingdom.

I will not repeat all the many causes of the problem that have already been mentioned today, but I think it worth drawing attention to the way in which large energy companies have used the prices of raw materials to raise the prices that they charge consumers, and the fact that—as a number of Members have observed—there is not the same flexibility when prices fall. That is one of the reasons for the level of profits that companies are experiencing. As many Members have pointed out, in the short term some of those profits could be used to deal with the problems.

A second cause is lack of investment. Because of that lack of investment and because of the demand that exists, prices are bound to be fairly buoyant anyway, and there is a captive market. A third—I suspect that many people will secretly agree with this, but will not be prepared to say so openly—is the impact of the Government’s climate change policies. When we say that because we want a low-carbon economy we will charge those who use carbon-based fuels in ways that cause carbon dioxide to be released into the atmosphere, and when we say that we will introduce policies to stop that happening, we cannot run away from the fact that such action will have implications for people’s fuel bills throughout the United Kingdom. The facts are clear. This year, simply to deal with the renewables obligations, being forced to purchase electricity from renewable sources has added £1.8 billion to the cost of producing electricity, and by 2020 the cost will be £6 billion a year. According to the Department’s own estimates, domestic consumers will face a 33% increase in the cost of electricity and non-domestic consumers such as industry will face an increase of 43%.

I support the motion, but it makes a rather glib reference to climate change. Many people will feel that they can agree with such sentiments, but behind them is the reality of what will happen to fuel bills: people will pay more for their energy. Denmark, not our country, has the highest costs per unit and the highest fuel bills, and Denmark produces 20% of its electricity from wind power. That is the highest proportion in Europe. The lowest costs are in France, which produces 75% of its energy from nuclear power.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the fact that France has the lowest energy costs serves to highlight that Governments of all colours have been short-sighted in not investing in new nuclear before, and that we ought to be going ahead with new nuclear now?

[Sammy Wilson]

I absolutely agree. I have consistently supported that, and back home have received some criticism for doing so, as people ask, “Are you therefore saying we should have a nuclear power station in Northern Ireland?” If it produces cheap electricity and deals with some of the problems people in my constituency face, of course I am happy to support that—although whether there are sufficient economies of scale in the Northern Ireland market to support a nuclear power station is another matter.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the short-sightedness of previous Governments, and I welcome the Secretary of State’s U-turn. Although he tried to cover that up today, he has clearly performed a U-turn on this issue. When he was in opposition he opposed nuclear energy, but now that he is in government he supports it, although he adds about 100 caveats to that support—the conversion process may take a little longer than we expected.

Reference has been made to the possibility of huge shale gas finds in Lancashire. The relative costs of electricity generation are as follows: 2.2p per kW for gas-fired electricity as against 7.2p per kW for offshore wind farms. Offshore wind is therefore three and a half times more expensive.

We say that we want 30% of our electricity to be generated by offshore wind by 2030, but that has implications for consumers across the United Kingdom. Regardless of our views on climate change, there ought to be some honesty in this debate. I do not know what the impact on global temperatures might be if we were to decarbonise our economy and reduce our CO₂ emissions, which account for 2% of the world’s CO₂ emissions, by 10% or 20% by 2020, but there will be a price to be paid by each of our constituents, and we ought to make that clear.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the increase in fuel prices will lead to many of our elderly and disabled people, who need heating most of all, not being able to afford it?

[Sammy Wilson]

Now that I have had my say on this particular part of the motion, I want to discuss some of the ways we can deal with the situation. We need to consider three periods. There are things we can do in the short term. Hon. Members have asked why pressure is not being put on the big energy companies to ensure that some of the windfall profits—I do not care what we call them, but we are talking about the increased profits—are redistributed in the form of lower prices. I understand that these companies have to make profits. If we want investment in the infrastructure for the future, there is no point saying that we want to strip profits from the companies that are going to have to make that investment. The question is whether those profits are excessive and whether, at this particular time, some of those profits should be going back to consumers. That could be in the form of price reductions, greater transparency about what is available or any of the suggestions that have been made, but the issue must be dealt with.

The second issue to address is that of winter fuel payments, which was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds). Those payments have been reduced and it is not good enough for the Government to say, “We’re following the same policy as the party that used to be the party of government.” As I pointed out, part of this problem has been caused by Government policy and so it is essential that we find some way to help the most vulnerable. Of course it is going to cost money but this issue needs to be addressed.

In the medium term, we must examine how we help people to reduce their energy bills. That could be through what we in Northern Ireland call the warm homes scheme, but what the rest of the United Kingdom calls the Warm Front scheme. The warm homes scheme was introduced by my right hon. Friend and it has gone from strength to strength. It has taken a lot of households out of fuel poverty, although I take the point made by the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (John Robertson), which is that it does not matter how much is spent on some homes as there will not be a significant reduction in the energy people use so fuel poverty will remain. The warm homes scheme in Northern Ireland has not just been a way of dealing with the social problem of fuel poverty; it is labour-intensive and so has been a useful scheme in creating local employment—it has a high local multiplier effect—at a time when we are looking for opportunities.

In the longer term, we have to be realistic about green policies. I welcome the Chancellor’s remarks that we should not be pursuing policies on decarbonising the economy if they place our economy at a disadvantage compared with others across the world. While the European Union is preaching about reducing carbon emissions, the German Government have a much more realistic view. They are actually investing in 20 coal-fired power stations and in nuclear, because they want to find ways of producing cheap energy. In the long term we have to look at our investment priorities and whether we are following the correct policy. If, in the long term, we wish to invest in that way, we need to consider how we are going to deal with the consequences.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I am sure that all Members are here today for the same reason: our constituents are struggling with the excruciating price of fuel. I will explore three practical points that might help, if the Government will allow me. The first relates to supply and the other two to upward price distortions that I believe could be removed or alleviated.

Shale gas has been mentioned and I will not go over the same ground. It seems that we have vast, abundant and cheap sources of gas in this country. We should be going through a shale gas revolution. I was glad that the Secretary of State spoke relatively warmly of the resource earlier, but I noticed that he moved quickly on to carbon capture and storage. I would like to bring to the House’s attention an article in The Wall Street Journal today entitled, “EU Weighs Pullback on Cutting Emissions”, which has the subtitle, “Commission’s Energy Department Urges EU to Reconsider Energy Transition Absent a Broader Emissions Deal”. I hope that the Secretary of State will not crucify the British people upon a cross of carbon, because if we can have a shale gas revolution I certainly hope we will. The imperative to produce cheap energy is clear, and many Members have set out the case with great talent and passion.

[Sammy Wilson]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman noticed that the Secretary of State talked about the capital cost that carbon capture and storage would add to a power station that had to use it. He talked about a figure of £1 billion plus the running costs afterwards, which would add significantly to the costs of producing energy from gas.

[Steve Baker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. It seems that these days we throw billions around casually, but those are enormous sums of money.

I turn, then, to more billions that are being thrown around. I have learned from Matthew Sinclair’s “Let Them Eat Carbon” that the EU emissions trading scheme is costing European consumers €15.5 billion a year and British consumers €2.2 billion a year. It seems to me that if we are truly concerned about what the poor and the strivers are paying for energy, we should look extremely carefully at such distortions to market prices. I note that because the carbon price collapsed under the EU ETS, we are now looking at a carbon floor price of £30 a tonne. Having tried to introduce a particular market-based mechanism and found that it does not work, we are now introducing a particular piece of price fixing. I am not at all convinced that that is a good idea.

Traditionally, Governments have interfered to pick winners, but it seems that at the moment they might be interfering to pick losers. I note that under feed-in tariffs, onshore wind receives £45 per megawatt-hour, whereas solar panels receive £400 per megawatt-hour. I am not sure those prices are a good use of taxpayers’ money, or of the system of feed-in tariffs, in the context of the shale gas resources that exist. I might go so far as to say that we seem to be entering some kind of Hegelian dialectic, in which on one hand we agonise over the price of energy and on the other hand we implement Government policies that seem deliberately to elevate energy prices, in the hope that some synthesis will emerge.