Medical Cannabis (Access) Bill
Debate between Sally-Ann Hart and Tonia Antoniazzi
Sally-Ann Hart
I am not a science geek. I would not even say that I was a legal eagle geek, but I do understand that primary legislation is very important in certain circumstances, but perhaps in this sort of situation it is not the right route to go down, because there are so many other methods that are perhaps better—methods where you involve the manufacturers, the doctors and clinical staff—
Tonia Antoniazzi
What has been put to the House today is a solution and a way forward following almost four and a half years’ work. Every single option has been explored, and it really disappoints me to see hon. Members from the 2019 intake talking out the Bill because they have been told to do so. All the Government want to do is kick the can down the road. That is not acceptable, and it is not a way forward. We all have empathy and sympathy for these families, so let us get something done and let us use this Bill to move forward.
Sally-Ann Hart
I thank the hon. Lady for her passion. The whole point of debates in this Chamber is to properly scrutinise proposed legislation so that we make the right decisions.
Sally-Ann Hart
I will give way in a minute.
We already have legislation and pathways in place. The Government have made big inroads on facilitating cannabis-based products for NHS prescription. We are on the path. Do you think primary legislation will force the hand of pharmaceutical companies or manufacturing businesses to bring forward products for clinical trials?
Tonia Antoniazzi
That is quite incredible. I invite every Conservative Member to join the APPG on access to medical cannabis under prescription, to understand better where we are. We are not in a good place. We have explored all the options, and this is not a request for big pharma to come in. I used to play rugby, and I have a friend who followed me in playing for Wales. She is a wonderful woman, and her child is now going on to Epidiolex because the family cannot afford to go on to Bedrocan. She knows she has to give Epidiolex a chance, but she knows it will not work and she is not being given the option because of the two-tier system this Government created.
Sally-Ann Hart
I agree on that point, and I wholeheartedly agree that we need to take more action to speed up the registering of prescription drugs, particularly if they are cannabis-based and there is an evidential base that they help many people who are in desperate need of that sort of medication.
The legislative changes presented in the Bill will not improve or expedite the development of the evidence required to support routine prescribing and funding on the NHS. I have raised the issue that manufacturing businesses and pharmaceutical companies need to come forward with their products for clinical trial. That is the most important thing.
I welcome the fact that the Government continue to support the establishment of clinical trials with NHS England and the National Institute for Health Research. From 1 April, a national patient registry was introduced to record patient outcomes. We talk about the amount of funding to do this or to do that, but we need closely to examine outcomes, because we need to know whether whatever goes in has a beneficial effect at the other end; that is vital, and we all have to take responsibility to ensure that it happens.
In recent years, there has been a lot of research into how medicinal cannabis can help epilepsy, mainly involving children with rare and serious epilepsy syndrome. Most studies have focused on CBD. The studies suggest that CBD may be an effective treatment for some rare types and hard-to-treat forms of epilepsy. There have been reports of side effects in about one in three people taking CBD, including drowsiness, reduced appetite and fatigue.
Most studies look at cannabis as an additional treatment for those who already take a number of prescribed epilepsy medicines, so it is difficult to tell whether cannabis works when taken on its own, and we have to be honest with ourselves about that. In addition, there do not appear to be any studies comparing medical cannabis with other medicines already licensed for treating epilepsy, so there seems to be no evidence—or not enough evidence—on whether medical cannabis is more or less safe, or more or less effective, than other epilepsy treatments.
Tonia Antoniazzi
I thank the hon. Lady for her generosity, but it is very frustrating to be sitting on these Benches and listening to what she is saying, because it is not true. The problem is that children have been dying, and these families have tried absolutely everything. The unlicensed drugs that children have had to take before they even had access to medicinal cannabis put them practically into a coma just to be alive; that is not acceptable. Please—I beg her to come and join the all-party parliamentary group, and to educate herself and her colleagues better.
Sally-Ann Hart
I thank the hon. Member for her intervention, but more clinical evidence is required on cannabis-based drugs. It is really important that that clinical evidence is there for everybody to see.
Sally-Ann Hart
I absolutely welcome that intervention from the hon. Lady. Thirty brain seizures a day would have a devastating impact on a child, but we also have to look at the cost-benefit analysis of the drugs that are being administered.
Tonia Antoniazzi
On that point, the cost of having a child at home on medicinal cannabis is a lot less than the cost of having that child in hospital. We have 20 children who are living proof of that. We have been asking for over four years for an observational trial of those children. That was agreed to by the NHS and then it was reneged on. There is RESCAS—the Refractory Epilepsy Specialist Clinical Advisory Service—but RESCAS does not work. I am afraid that the hon. Lady is not speaking with a clear and informed view. Unfortunately, that is stopping these children getting what they need today with this Bill.