Tax Avoidance, Evasion and Compliance

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Monday 4th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

I echo the words of the Chairs of the Treasury Committee and the Select Committee on Justice. The Minister’s words that the Government will not focus on enforcing historical IR35 cases will stick in the gullet of those, like my constituents, who are sick with anxiety at facing huge bills of over £100,000 relating to the loan charge. These are not affluent people; they are businesspeople who have ploughed everything they have into their business and into employing local people. Does the Minister understand just how stressful this is when they have not even received their settlement amount from the Inland Revenue after the date, at the end of February, by which they were promised it?

[Mel Stride]

It is very important for us to be extremely clear as to what disguised remuneration is all about. It is a situation where I, as an employer, instead of paying an employee in the normal manner, on which basis PAYE would be due—that would be income tax, employee’s national insurance and employer’s national insurance—I say to the employee, “Look, we’ll do it a different way. I’ll send some money out, typically into a trust in a low-tax or no-tax overseas jurisdiction. That money will then come back into the United Kingdom disguised as a loan”—not a real loan, as the hon. Lady and I would recognise, but one where there is no expectation that it will be repaid—“and, as a consequence because it is treated as a loan and not earnings, it attracts no tax at all.” This Government do not believe that is right.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 19th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Ruth George]

That is what the new clause would require. If the Government wanted us to abolish entrepreneurs’ relief and had given us a Finance Bill that we could actually amend, and if they had the courage to put their policies to votes on the Floor of the House and to give us any alternative, other than to amend the Bill to require reviews, we would gladly do so. Perhaps the Minister could indicate from his sedentary position whether he is prepared to allow the Committee to make such an amendment to abolish entrepreneurs’ relief.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mel Stride)]

rose—

[Mel Stride]

I was just going to say that, as the hon. Lady will know, all amendments need to be in scope and that that is ultimately a decision for Mr Speaker. I am sure that he has taken the appropriate decisions in this case—[Interruption.]

[Ruth George]

My hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) has just said from a sedentary position that the Government have set the parameters for the scope of amendments in this Bill. The same happened with the previous two Finance Bills that they brought to the House. They have not allowed any substantive amendments to the Bill. They will not allow their policies to be tested on the Floor of the House, because those policies have been found wanting in terms of redistribution of wealth from the best off in our society to the poorest. It is actually the poorest who pay 42% of their income, while the richest pay just 34%. How is that fair?

This Budget has done nothing to support the poorest people. After raising VAT to 20%, the Government have doubled insurance tax and are raising council tax across the country by 5% a year, hitting the poorest in our society and hitting those who can afford it the least. They are also hitting those who are homeowners with universal credit. We have heard that the Government aspire to support homeowners, so why is it that, under universal credit, 74% of people who lose out are actually homeowners? They have seen their clawback of income nearly doubling from 39% under the Labour Government to 63% under this Government, and it is going up to 75% for taxpayers.

If the Government disagree with our analysis that this Budget is not helping people in poverty and that it is actually entrenching the serious divides and the serious destitution and poverty within our society, they should prove their case by supporting our amendment for an equalities impact assessment. But they have form on this. I have been calling for an equalities impact assessment of universal credit changes since 2015 and since I first came to this House, and it has been refused. They are now refusing to hold one in this Budget. Anyone would think that this Government had something to hide. I know from people around my constituency, which is relatively affluent, that it is not just the poorest people who are appalled at the level of food bank use, the level of homelessness and the level of evictions that are being inflicted on the poorest people in our society. People across my constituency are writing to me, imploring me to stand up for the poorest, because otherwise we are poorer as a society.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Monday 12th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I can assure my hon. Friend that we are indeed reducing government debt. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that in each year of the coming period we will be reducing debt as a percentage of GDP. We have of course met our two intermediate targets a full three years early. We are fiscally responsible, which is why we are in a position to be able to support our public services in the very significant way that we are doing.

[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

The Conservative party came to power in 2010 promising to eliminate the deficit by 2015. Not only has it not done that, but it has doubled this country’s debt and brought public services to their knees. Is the Minister claiming that this project has been a success?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Lady will know that the deficit was up at about 10%—£150 billion a year—at the time we inherited the mess that her party left us with. That deficit has now reduced by a full 80%, to below 2% of GDP, and will go down further as we move forward. Now, let me make some progress.

As I was saying, these are the economic facts of life and, as a great lady once said:

“The facts of life are conservative.”

Under this Conservative Government, sound finances are being restored. The future is brighter, bringing with it our increased commitment to our public services, most notably to our highest priority of all, our national health service. Thanks to the commitment of this Government and the hard work of the British people, we are now entering a new era. The deficit is fading, real wages are rising, the debt is declining and better times are returning. We now have a near record level of employment, with unemployment at a 40-year low, and we have halved youth unemployment since 2010. Central to this progress is my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s Budget and this Bill.

This Bill introduces a tax cut for 32 million people, through bringing forward by a year our manifesto commitment to increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate threshold to £50,000.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Tuesday 17th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising the FSB’s report. I have not only read it, but met the FSB to discuss the report in detail. I highlight to the House two of its important recommendations: one is around better guidance on taxation, and I have tasked officials on that mission within HMRC; and the second is Making Tax Digital, which we are rolling out for VAT-registered companies in 2019. The report states that this

“presents an opportunity to simplify and speed up tax compliance.”

[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

Is the Minister not concerned that the Office for Budget Responsibility report into welfare trends from January this year estimates that £1.5 billion of support for small businesses will be taken from them through the minimum income floor in universal credit? The Select Committee on Work and Pensions heard that 70% of small businesses currently last for 18 months, but that that will reduce to 20% for those on universal credit. Small businesses will be strangled at birth.

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Lady neglects to mention the fact that small business confidence in the UK is now in positive territory for the first time in many years. We have gone to great lengths within the tax system, as I have just explained, to reduce the burden on small businesses. We rolled out £9 billion of business rates relief in the 2016 Budget and a further £2.3 billion of relief in the autumn Budget last year. We will continue to be on the side of small businesses.

Finance (No. 2) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Mel Stride]

Clauses 3 and 4 set the main, default and savings rates of income tax for 2018-19. The clauses keep the basic, higher and additional rates of income tax at the same level as last year. We are also supporting lower and middle earners by increasing the tax-free personal allowance and the point at which people pay the higher rate of tax in line with inflation next year, locking in previous rises and helping hard-working people with the cost of living.

By keeping rates the same while increasing the personal allowance and higher rate threshold, we are delivering on our manifesto commitment to cut taxes for working people. We are protecting our fair and progressive tax system, in which those who can contribute the most shoulder the greatest burden. The latest figures show that the top 1% of taxpayers contribute nearly 28% of all income tax. We have already cut taxes for 31 million people since 2015 and taken more than 1 million of the lowest-paid out of income tax altogether. We have promised to go even further to increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate threshold to £50,000 by 2020.

New clause 10 would require the OBR to analyse the effect of the income tax rates set out in clauses 3 and 4 on incentives into employment. An important part of the OBR’s role is to subject the Government’s policy costings to detailed challenge and scrutiny at each fiscal event. As the Committee would expect, the impact of tax policy changes on employment is an important judgment that the OBR makes when certifying a costing. The OBR sets out its judgments clearly in its publication “Economic and fiscal outlook”. Detailed distributional analysis of the kind requested is not in line with the OBR’s remit to examine and report on the sustainability of the public finances. Extending its remit to include undertaking distributional analysis would risk diverting the OBR from an already challenging task. I therefore urge the Committee to resist new clause 10.

[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

In speaking to new clause 10, I will address the points that the Minister has just made. Employment incentives and employment rates are a key part of our economic outlook and of securing the prosperity of working people throughout the UK. We accept that the headline rate of income tax in the Bill will stay at 20%, and that the personal tax allowance has risen over the last seven years by more than inflation. However, underlying that, and underlying the tax cuts for 31 million people, there have been huge increases in the marginal tax rates that effectively apply to working people. Under the tax credits system, the clawback rate was 39% of gross income, but it has been raised to 41%. The clawback of 63% of net income under universal credit particularly affects people whose income falls below the personal tax allowance rate.

Those are the groups of people whom it is important to encourage into work, such as single parents and second earners in families with children. The Child Poverty Action Group predicts that as a result of the roll-out of universal credit, a further 1 million children will fall into poverty. That increase will mean that 37% of all children in the UK are in poverty. Surely, the best way out of poverty for those children is to ensure that their parents can move into work. That is the best route out of poverty for all those households, in both the short term and the long term.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

We will always look at the kind of issues the hon. Lady has highlighted. We will do that as a matter of good Government policy and to produce the policies we look at going forward. However, this is not the forum to begin looking for commitments on new reports, new investigations and new analysis. As the hon. Lady will know, there are many bodies out there that conduct that kind of analysis.

[Ruth George]

I thank the Minister for his response. I am surprised he does not think it is the role of Government or this Committee to ask for reviews on matters as important as a marginal tax rate. Given the limitations on amendments we can make to the Bill, reviews are practically the only thing we can ask for. I am sure the Minister would prefer that no amendments at all could be made to the Bill, because that would make his life an awful lot easier. As that is one of the few things that, under the constitution, we are allowed to do, I hope that the Minister will agree that looking at marginal tax rates for people on low pay is one of the most important things that the Government should be doing to alleviate poverty.

In spite of the numbers that have been taken out of income tax, we have actually seen rising numbers of working people in poverty. The fact that three million people are no longer paying income tax does not offer a lot of comfort to those who cannot afford to pay for food and heating because eight million working people are now in poverty. That has the knock-on effect on children, on households and on long-term poverty.

All we are asking for is some transparency. The Minister says that this Government have brought in a fair and progressive tax system. We simply want the Government and the OBR to be able to show how fair and progressive the system is by producing the figures on the marginal tax rates which affect almost a third of all working people.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ruth George]

Absolutely. I hope that Members on both sides of the House will give their encouragement to that Bill so that we can make homes fit for human habitation.

On the subject of universal credit, whether or not homes are fit for human habitation, unfortunately landlords are not prepared to rent. A representative of a lettings agency came to my surgery just last week and showed me the books for its tenants. At the moment, 20 tenants are on universal credit—we still have not seen it rolled out—of whom 18, or 90%, are in huge arrears. Nine of them—45%—have had to be evicted because landlords cannot get any redress for arrears. They cannot afford to see those arrears build up. Now that they no longer claim mortgage interest relief, they know that they will have to pay a big tax bill come the end of January, so they need to ensure that they can make their homes pay.

This Government’s housing policy is simply racking up disaster on disaster. Homelessness is doubling and home ownership is falling, and universal credit is yet to come. We needed big ideas from the Chancellor, as the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government told him in no uncertain terms. We see nothing in this Bill but tinkering at the edges that will do nothing to help solve the enormous housing crisis in this country.

[Mel Stride]

We have been debating important measures. Clause 8 introduces an income tax allowance for members of the armed forces to help them to meet the cost of accommodation in the private market in the UK. Clause 40 makes sensible legislative adjustments to the additional rate of stamp duty land tax to ensure that people in some specific—often disadvantaged—circumstances are not unduly penalised. Clause 41 announces the Government’s abolition of stamp duty land tax for first-time buyers purchasing properties under £300,000. This key part of the Government’s drive to ease the burden on young first-time buyers will go a significant way towards levelling the playing field in those people’s favour. It is notable, and equally lamentable, that this particular policy, which predominantly assists the young, appears to be something that the Labour party rejects and indeed derides. I commend the clauses and schedule to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 40 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 11 agreed to.

Clauses 41 and 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

New Clause 4

Review of relief for first-time buyers

“(1) The Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs shall undertake a review of the impact of the relief for first-time buyers introduced in Schedule 6ZA to FA 2003.

(2) The review shall consider, in particular, the effects of the relief on—

(a) the public revenue,

(b) house prices, and

(c) the supply of housing.

(3) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must lay a copy of a report of the review under this section before the House of Commons no later than one calendar week prior to the date which he has set for his Autumn 2018 Budget Statement.”—(Jonathan Reynolds.)

This new clause requires a review to be published prior to the Autumn 2018 Budget on the impact of the relief for first-time buyers, including its effects on house prices and on the supply of housing.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Finance Bill (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Committee Debate: 6th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 24th October 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Stella Creasy]

My hon. Friend has shown how simple it is to evade the tax by avoiding the loophole—the previous Chancellor tried to close it by ensuring that non-doms paid capital gains tax on the sale of residential property—simply by repurposing a building as commercial property. Even given the rules on closed companies in existing legislation, people can get around the charge. I am suggesting that the figure could be as much as £8 billion. I certainly think that at least £1 billion of public revenue could come from closing the loophole and simplifying the way we treat non-doms with capital gains tax. The Minister may have a different number, but the point of the new clause is to get the number.

The Bill is about how we manage public finances. Giving this tax loophole to non-doms means that our British businesses are unfairly treated and our property market faces artificial pressure. We are missing out on vital funds that could go into our public services. The new clause is not a magic money tree; it is a concrete cash cow. If the Minister will not agree to publishing the data, will he commit to looking at how we can close the loophole?

[Mel Stride]

New clause 2—I think it is now known as the concrete cash cow clause—provides us with an opportunity to discuss the rules surrounding UK commercial property and those who are foreign-domiciled. As the hon. Member for Walthamstow explained, her new clause would require HMRC to review the taxation of capital gains on commercial property disposal by UK taxpayers with a foreign domicile.

There is no question but that all UK residents, whether UK-based or non-domiciled, are chargeable for tax on profits from selling UK land. That includes non-domiciles who are taxed on a remittance basis, where foreign income and gains are taxed only when they are brought into the UK. Our tax base is predominantly those who are resident in the United Kingdom. As the hon. Lady has drawn to our attention, recent changes removed non-residents into the UK tax base for the sale of UK residential property. The new clause raises the fact that that treatment does not extend to non-residents for the sale of commercial property in this country. While I understand why she suggests that extending the laws would raise revenue, I should point out that this is a very complex area, which needs to be carefully considered.

The 2015 rules were designed to catch individuals and ways in which a person may hold title over a dwelling such as via trusts and closely held companies. They do not apply to companies with lots of shareholders. The structures that are used to own commercial property are different from residential property, often more complex and involving corporates, joint ventures and specialist property vehicles. We would need rules that address such structures and get to the heart of the ultimate owner.

Will the hon. Lady consider this illustration? I might live in Canada and own 50% of a home in Walthamstow. I might easily conceive, if I did not know for sure, that selling my part of the house in the UK would mean paying some UK tax. However, imagine instead that I own a handful of shares in a fund of some kind, which in turn owns half an office block in Walthamstow. Being such a minor shareholder, I may not even know how my money is invested. To send the tax man chasing round overseas for the little shareholder in a commercial building would hardly be cost-effective. We would need to design balanced rules that look at how the market works and what would yield the Exchequer the best return.

Extending the current rules to include any UK property is not a simple matter of striking through “residential property” and inserting “all UK property” into the current provisions, as this would not take into account the intrinsic differences in the way that commercial properties are owned and dealt with.

[Ruth George]

Does the Minister agree that now that we are seeing residential property increasingly acquired by such complex structures, and that by eradicating the omission for commercial properties, it would simplify the legislation? HMRC would not have to establish whether a property was commercial or residential because there are so many grey areas, as my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow pointed out.

[Mel Stride]

The point I was trying to make was not so much whether one classified a property as residential or commercial. My point was that where it is commercial, the ownership arrangements can be so complicated that this kind of approach is far from simple.

Finance Bill (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Committee Debate: 5th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 24th October 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Mel Stride]

I thank the hon. Lady for what is a slightly loaded question, if I may say so. I am certainly not prepared to wait for abuses of any kind, but I am prepared to wait, and it is right to wait, for a deep and considered consultation, as opposed to a short debate in the context of the Finance Bill. That is the critical point to bear in mind on this matter.

The clauses before us provide for making tax digital for business. That concerns the way in which businesses record and report their tax liabilities. The hon. Lady made some powerful points about the treatment of service charges, but I believe that they would be better pursued through the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. It has responsibility for this area and is best placed to ensure that tips, gratuities and service charges are treated in line with the principles of clarity and transparency set out in its recent consultation. Dealing with the matter through legislation on digital taxation would risk missing crucial elements for employees or businesses that have been captured in the submissions to the consultation.

[Ruth George]

Bearing in mind that national minimum wage legislation can be implemented by BEIS only on an individual basis, when an individual complains, and such cases can be settled only on an individual basis, does the Minister not agree that a wider remit than that of BEIS will be required to tackle substantive abuses that go across whole workforces, as described by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Lady raises an extremely important matter, which is those employers who do not adhere to the requirements of the national minimum wage. HMRC and the Treasury take that extremely seriously, and we have mechanisms in place, as she may know, for reporting instances of that where they occur. I can assure her that the Treasury is the Ministry directly responsible for strategic oversight of HMRC and that HMRC takes any abuse of the national minimum wage requirements and regulations in this country extremely seriously, and pursues and brings to book those who commit abuses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

As I just said to the hon. Lady, we can say in relation to any aspect of HMRC’s operation or any of the rules that it is there to clamp down on that we want regular reporting and all the rest of it. The point is that as a Ministry, the Treasury is there to have strategic oversight of HMRC and to ensure that it is behaving in an appropriate way and chasing down tax avoidance, evasion and non-compliance in whatever form they may appear, including the forms that she has raised. We will continue to do just that.

[Ruth George]

Bearing in mind that individuals have to raise a complaint in order to secure an investigation by HMRC compliance, and that the workers we are talking about are some of the most vulnerable and most susceptible to exploitation, immediate dismissal or changes to their terms and conditions because they are often not in the workplace for a substantial length of time, does the Minister agree that it would be helpful if HMRC were able proactively to investigate these schemes, rather than having to wait for individual vulnerable employees to put themselves at risk by raising a complaint?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Lady overlooks the fact that it is often possible for those who wish to complain to do so anonymously through their trade union or other representatives. That is what happens in many cases. HMRC does not have to rely on a specific complaint to conduct an investigation. It may have suspicions of its own for a variety of reasons. I do not think that we are in a position where people are unable to come forward, as she suggests.

The hon. Member for Aberdeen North has tabled two amendments that seek to review the impact of MTD on specific groups. I recognise her concerns, but the Government have been clear from the outset that businesses that are unable to go digital will not be required to do so.

If you will indulge me, Mr Howarth, it is worth looking at some of the detail of the Bill at this point. The hon. Lady has raised a very important point about potential digital exclusion. Clause 60 covers exemptions, as I am sure she is aware. New sub-paragraph (4) of paragraph 14 of schedule A1 states:

“The digital exclusion condition is met”—

for those who would not be required to put in their returns digitally—

“in relation to a person or partner if…for any reason (including age, disability or location)”—

the hon. Lady rightly raised rural localities—

“it is not reasonably practicable”—

that is not the same as completely impossible—

“for the person or partner to use electronic communications or to keep electronic records”.

I think that is a well-crafted clause to catch the kind of circumstances about which the hon. Lady and I are concerned.

Finance Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 19th October 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Mel Stride]

Again, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Walker.

Members of the Committee are now turning their attention to clauses 29 to 32, which with schedules 8 and 9 bring an end to permanent non-dom status in the United Kingdom. This historic change was announced by the Government at the 2015 summer Budget. The provisions were then introduced in the Finance Bill in the last Parliament, but were removed at the Opposition’s request following the calling of the general election. At the time, the Government announced they would return to legislate these proposals at the earliest opportunity, and I am pleased to be able to deliver on that promise and introduce the changes from April 2017, as originally intended. I should perhaps pick up the comments by the hon. Member for Bootle, who suggested that the delays, such as they are, may in some way have favoured non-doms by delaying the introduction of these measures. These measures will be introduced, as we have always indicated, in April this year. In that sense, they are retrospective in a way in which I am sure he will approve.

As the Committee will be aware, individuals who are non-domiciled in the UK for tax purposes enjoy two significant advantages. The first is that where such individuals are resident in the UK, they have access to the remittance basis of taxation. That allows them to defer tax on any of their income and gains arising overseas until they are brought into the United Kingdom. The second big advantage is an inheritance tax rule, whereby those who are domiciled overseas need pay tax on only their assets that are situated in the UK, rather than on their assets worldwide. Those advantages have been a feature of the UK tax system for many years. As successive Governments have recognised, the advantages have played a big role in ensuring that the UK is an attractive place to live and work for people from around the world, and it should not be forgotten that non-doms have actually brought in around £9 billion each year in much-needed revenue for the Exchequer.

None the less, the Government recognise that there are some unfairnesses in the current rules for non-doms that need to be addressed. For example, the Government believe that it is unfair that someone can live in the UK for lengthy periods of time—in some cases, virtually their entire life—and continue to enjoy tax advantages that are not available to the vast majority of people who live and work in the UK. These provisions seek to address that unfairness, and I am sure that will enjoy cross-party support.

The changes being made by clause 29 will bring an end to the permanent non-dom status for the purposes of both income tax and capital gains tax. That means that from April 2017 anyone who has been resident in the UK for 15 or more of the previous 20 years can no longer be treated as a non-dom for tax purposes. They will instead be taxed in the same way as everybody else and pay tax on their worldwide income and gains. Likewise, anyone who was born here with a UK domicile of origin will also become deemed domiciled whenever they are resident in the UK. The clause fundamentally changes the way that non-doms pay tax in the UK, raising a further £1.6 billion over the next five years to fund our vital public services.

Clause 30 sets out how the deeming rules apply for the purposes of inheritance tax, ensuring that all those who become deemed domiciled under the new provisions are liable for UK inheritance tax in the same way as UK residents. Clause 31 ensures that individuals who become deemed domiciled under the new provisions pay the right amount of tax on any benefits they receive from overseas trusts that they set up while they were domiciled outside the UK. Finally, clause 32 ensures that a double charge is prevented by excluding gains that represent carried interest from the trust charging provisions.

The hon. Member for Bootle wants the removal of what he terms “the exemptions” from off-shore trusts for those who have become deemed domiciled under these new proposals. I assure him, and he should reflect on the fact, that any moneys coming out of those trusts for whatever purpose will be taxed once an individual becomes deemed domiciled.

There is also an important matter of proportionality here. As I have already indicated, the Exchequer raises around £9 billion per year from those who are non-domiciled in the United Kingdom. That is a huge amount of money, which goes some way to paying for our doctors and nurses, our armed forces and so on. These measures will raise a further £1.6 billion over the scorecard period, as I have indicated.

[Ruth George]

How can the Treasury be so sure of the projected future income of £1.6 billion when there is a loophole for transferring money to offshore trusts that could be used to avoid the taxation? How can those future projections possibly be calculated?

[Mel Stride]

I am clearly not in a position to share with the hon. Lady the entire ins and outs of all the intricacies of calculating such figures, but I can assure her that the numbers are looked at in great detail and are scored by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. They are robust figures, albeit that no figures are entirely, absolutely guaranteed in cast iron ahead of time—but they are robust.

During the debate, the hon. Lady raised an important issue about transparency of trust arrangements. The UK is right at the forefront of greater transparency. We spearheaded an initiative to systematically share information on beneficial ownership arrangements with more than 50 countries. That will help law enforcement to unravel complex, cross-border changes in companies and trusts. Following our work with international partners, by September 2018 more than 100 jurisdictions will be sharing information with the UK under the common reporting standard, which will provide HMRC with taxpayer information from tax authorities around the world, enabling it to better target tax evaders.

That brings me to my next point. The hon. Member for Bootle would have us believe two things: that we are only on the side of the wealthy and that we are not actually that interested in clamping down on tax avoidance. On the first point, I remind the Committee that the top 1% of earners in this country pay 27% of all taxes. That is virtually at an historic high, and is certainly higher than was the case under the previous Labour Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ruth George]

rose—

[Mel Stride]

I think I might make a little progress.

[Ruth George]

I was going to return to the matter in hand.

[Mel Stride]

If the hon. Lady will let me make a little progress, perhaps we will have time later.

Another point the hon. Member for Bootle raised was the suggestion that we are somehow slack or not concerned about tax avoidance. This Government have clamped down on avoidance to the extent that we have brought in £160 billion in revenue by clamping down on tax avoidance, evasion and non-compliance. We have done that despite his constant assertions that HMRC is under-resourced and incapable of acting. We are bringing in record levels of compliance income at the moment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ruth George]

Like my hon. Friend, I am pleased to see decent allowance made for expenditure on electric vehicle charge points. It is much needed, particularly in my rural constituency, where it will be difficult to install the infrastructure in a way that business can comply with. I echo her point about small businesses. I understand that the Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill may introduce a requirement for service stations to install electric vehicle charge points. Many service stations are independently owned; it seems particularly hard on them that they will not receive tax incentives for installing charge points, but larger companies will.

Will the Minister explain why the cut-off date is 31 March 2019 for corporation tax and 5 April 2019 for income tax? The technology is already being produced but will change constantly over the next few years. It is important to ensure that companies can consider the full range of technology coming on the market and adapt their charging points to the most successful and future-proofed. For that reason, it seems odd to include an arbitrary time limit. Can the Minister explain that?

[Mel Stride]

I have a direct answer for the hon. Members for High Peak and for Oxford East: the relief will be available to businesses of all sizes. I take on board the point made by the hon. Member for High Peak about her own constituents in that context.

The hon. Member for Oxford East raised the general issue of whether the electricity going through the charging points would be green enough. It is probably not the purpose of the Committee to determine that, but I certainly share her aspiration that we should encourage as much green energy as possible, which is why we are investing so much in the shift from traditional power generation to greener alternatives. She also quoted the suggestion that the number of charging points was a drop in the ocean, which is why we hope that such tax reliefs will help set up charging points as quickly as possible.

The hon. Member for High Peak also asked about the March and April dates for tax year ends for the different categories.

[Ruth George]

It was simply why the cut-off is there.

[Mel Stride]

I thought the question was about March and April. The reason for March and April was that individuals and companies have different tax year ends in that respect.

[Ruth George]

May I clarify? I was simply asking why there was a 2019 cut-off, not why there were two dates of 31 March and 5 April, which I think is fairly widely understood.

[Mel Stride]

I believe that is the review date—the point at which we would naturally want to look again at the issue and see how the roll-out has occurred.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 38 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 39 ordered to stand part of the Bill.



Clause 40

Co-ownership authorised contractual schemes: capital allowances

Finance Bill

Debate between Ruth George and Mel Stride

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

Thank you for that ruling, Madam Deputy Speaker; I am pleased that you will be able to hear me from now on. I entirely accept the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies); if there is to be an insurrection, there must at least be some people present with whom to insurrect.

[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

Rather than proving that Conservative Members are able to count people on Benches—which at times is beneficial to them, but at many other times is not—perhaps the right hon. Gentleman could listen to all the small businesses who are squealing about the massive increases they have seen in business rates and the impact on business start-ups of the changes to universal credit that are going to prevent a lot of people from starting up as self-employed, hitting those in constituencies like mine where there is no support for them.

[Mel Stride]

I think the hon. Lady will have heard my—[Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor has arrived: the troops are in place, so let the insurrection commence.

The Bill will make our tax system fairer in a number of ways, but I want to focus now on how it strengthens our position in tackling tax avoidance and evasion. This is a Government who have already announced more than 75 measures to tackle evasion and avoidance since 2010, and we have secured almost £160 billion in additional tax revenue over this period. We have driven forward international action and will continue to do so. We have published one of the first public registers of beneficial ownership. We have reduced the tax gap to one of the lowest in the world. This Finance Bill introduces new policies to tackle aggressive tax planning, avoidance and evasion. It continues to crack down on disguised remuneration schemes, it introduces a new penalty for those who enable tax avoidance, and it clamps down further on online VAT fraud.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. We do put small businesses first, which is precisely why we listened so carefully to the feedback we received on our proposals and have made changes that will allow breathing space for businesses to prepare and for us to pilot further the plans we will introduce in due course.

As the vast majority of businesses already submit VAT returns on a quarterly basis, the transition to quarterly updates through Making Tax Digital should not be unduly onerous.

[Ruth George]

Although the delay in Making Tax Digital gives breathing space for very small firms, those firms will now face additional administrative requirements, possibly alongside Brexit and a dip in the economy. Is that not an added concern for businesses now that they have seen how onerous the proposals actually are?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Lady may be aware that in the consultation we received the message from businesses that they broadly welcome these changes as we move into the digital age and do things more efficiently and effectively. However, businesses did have concerns, to which we have listened, about the timing and pace of the changes we originally proposed. The policy is robust, but the Government and I are determined to get the changes right and to make them at the right pace that suits those companies.