Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 16th January 2023 Commons Chamber

Second Reading

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I must inform the House that the reasoned amendments have not been selected.

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[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Secretary of State has never negotiated a minimum service agreement in the NHS. I have. The Secretary of State is completely fabricating what happens. It is the trade unions who work with the staff and the employers to put a safe agreement—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I am afraid I will have to ask the hon. Lady to withdraw her remark about fabricating. She will do that, I know. I am sure that is not what she meant to say and will indicate that that is not what she meant to say—yes?

[Rachael Maskell]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your guidance. I will rephrase what I was saying. The reality is that safe agreements are negotiated between the staff and the employers. That happens on the ground; the process and the outcomes protect the NHS, because that is what staff want to do. Will the Secretary of State ensure that he reflects the truth of what happens in the NHS?

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[Richard Graham]

My right hon. Friend is under a constant onslaught of noise from Opposition Members, who show terrific support for those in the unions in their constituencies and for those in the unions funding their constituency offices, but who seem to forget the interests of all our constituents, which are in the minimum service level agreements that my right hon. Friend is proposing. Ultimately, what people in our constituencies need to know, whether or not we know them, is that in those six sectors a minimum service will be provided regardless of the right of people in the sector to hold back their labour on a pay negotiation or for any other reason. [Interruption.] That is a reasonable proposition, and we should be heard. [Hon. Members: “Speech!”]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Before the Secretary of State answers the hon. Gentleman, I remind the House that it is important that we use moderation in our language and that we do not impugn the motives of others. That is not how we want the debate to continue. It is an important subject, so let us try to introduce moderation into our discussion.

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester is absolutely right about the reason for requiring minimum standards.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I cannot hear the answer that the Secretary of State is giving to the question. There is no point in just shouting when he is actually answering the question.

[Grant Shapps]

I suppose the fundamental point is that we hope very much that, in many cases, we will not need to use the powers conferred by the legislation, but we have seen that that will not always be possible.

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[Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con)]

Last week, during my weekly surgery, a constituent asked me why the Labour party was too scared to ask its trade union colleagues to come to the table and negotiate a peaceful resolution—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Members must not shout other Members down.

[Saqib Bhatti]

I could not figure out why Labour was scared to encourage trade unionists to come to the table. Why does the Secretary of State think Labour is so scared of securing a peaceful resolution of the strikes?

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[Grant Shapps]

I am sure that the normal parliamentary rules apply, so I would never stand here and seek to do such a thing. In the interests of transparency, I will mention the £11,100 that the hon. Member has received from the CLP union in this House—[Interruption.] Sorry, that the CLP received from Unite the union, I should say to satisfy Opposition Members.

Officially, the work notice—[Interruption.] If Opposition Members would let me just explain how this operates—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. It really is important that we hear what the Secretary of State has to say. It is also important that any reference to donations or payments is accurate.

[Grant Shapps]

I should have referred to what the CLP received from Unite the union. Hon. Members are absolutely right to correct me at the Dispatch Box.

The work notice must not list more people than reasonably necessary to meet the minimum level of safety and service. Employers must have no regard to whether someone is or is not a member of the union—or even the CLP—when deciding whether they need to be included in that work notice. Each employer and union must also adhere to data protection legislation.

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[Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)]

We are living in a time when democracy and freedom are under threat across the world. The right to strike is an important one. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Please do not shout down the right hon. Lady.

[Vicky Ford]

Thank you for clarifying that, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Secretary of State just mentioned that minimum service levels exist in many other countries, including Italy, Spain and France. I do not know whether Opposition Members have ever been to France, but the French have been known to strike. Does my right hon. Friend agree that my Chelmsford constituents should have the same benefits on strike days as those living in France, Italy and Spain?

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

As colleagues can see, well over 50 hon. and right hon. Members are wishing to catch my eye. Before I call the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, I want to inform colleagues that there will be an immediate four-minute time limit on Back-Bench speeches so that we can try to get everybody in.

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

First, let me declare an interest as a proud lifelong trade unionist. I regret the tone of the Secretary of State’s speech today. If he is implying in any way that Members of the House do not care about their constituents or put their constituents first, or that members of our vital public services who got us through the pandemic do not take the safety of the people they look after seriously and would walk away, I think he should reflect on his comments.

I have been a Member of this House for some seven years now, and I cannot recall a measure that is at once so irrational and so insulting. Not only is this legislation a vindictive assault on the basic freedoms of British working people, but it is as empty of detail as it is full of holes. We will oppose the sacking of nurses Bill, and it is not just about nurses but about the many key workers who we clapped and who kept our services going in the face of the pandemic. We will vote against this legislation tonight, and the next Labour Government will repeal it.

We are in the middle of an economic crisis of the Government’s making. Working people are facing the largest fall in living standards in a generation. [Interruption.] The Secretary of State keeps shouting “Putin”, but what about Liz Truss?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order.

[Angela Rayner]

What about the Conservatives crashing the economy? The Secretary of State forgets the fact that inflation has gone through the roof under their watch. Thirteen years of Conservative failure. Members watching this debate and constituents up and down the country know the truth, and they will tell this Government what they think, come the next general election.

Working people are facing the largest fall in living standards in a generation. In-work poverty, insecure work and financial insecurity are rampant. Inflation is in double digits. It is in this context that we have seen the greatest levels of strike disruption in 33 years, with ambulance workers taking their first major strike action in decades and the first ever strike in the history of the Royal College of Nursing. Our posties, train drivers, Border Force, health workers, train cleaners and even Ministers’ own officials have taken action too. The Prime Minister will not admit it, but this is a crisis and it is a crisis of the Government’s making. This legislation does nothing to resolve the problems that they have caused. There is no common sense in it at all.