Jagtar Singh Johal

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I understand that legal papers have been lodged in relation to the case that is the subject of the urgent question. I am content for the urgent question to be dealt with because of the seriousness of the issues concerned, but I ask all Members to exercise caution and not to discuss issues that might prejudice any later legal proceedings.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the shadow Minister, Catherine West.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

The allegations in recent weeks of the potential collusion of the British intelligence service in the arbitrary detention of Mr Johal are deeply worrying. It is vital that the veracity of those claims is investigated as soon as possible to find the truth.

The House will expect the Minister to be clear on whether the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), under whose watch we believe this occurred, authorised sharing this intelligence with the Indian Government when he was the Foreign Secretary. I also urge the Minister to outline whether the Government are using their contacts at the highest level of the Indian Government to press for Mr Johal’s release without further delay.

I have three further questions. First, will the Foreign Secretary, who was appointed last night, make himself available at his earliest opportunity for a meeting with the family? Secondly, since 1995, every Government have made human rights part of the dialogue when they speak to India about trade, yet the current free trade agreement does not appear to have human rights within it. Can he clarify that?

Finally, it is a worrying pattern that there are other such cases in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office—for example, Morad Tahbaz, who remains languishing in an Iranian prison, or Alaa Abd El Fattah in Egypt, who liked a Facebook page. What urgent action is the FCDO taking on those cases? It must be a first principle that it is the first duty of the Government to look after every British national. The family asked today whether the new Prime Minister will show more guts than her predecessor. I think all hon. Members would like to see some backbone injected into these negotiations.

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[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I will take the point of order at the end.

[Rehman Chishti]

The specific question that we have before the House today looks at the welfare and treatment of a British national in India, where there are specific concerns about his welfare and treatment. The United Kingdom Government have made it clear through the number of engagements and representations that we have made—nearly 100 between officials and Ministers, including Prime Minister to Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary to Foreign Secretary—how importantly we take these concerns. My hon. Friend’s point about the accusations and allegations is that—

[Rehman Chishti]

Allegations. If I may finish, what I would say is that the accusations and allegations that have been made with regard to the situation of a British national abroad need to be looked at fully and fairly, in line with India’s commitments to human rights, domestic law and international law. That is what we would regard for any citizen anywhere around the world.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson, Stuart C. McDonald.

[Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) for securing this urgent question and for his relentless campaigning on behalf of his constituent. I echo his comments 100% and agree with what he said. As I understand it, the outgoing Prime Minister has previously been absolutely clear that this is a case of arbitrary detention. Is that still the Minister’s position? It seems absolutely clear that Mr Johal has been disgracefully treated during that detention, so will the Government call for his release? It is a simple question. I appreciate that legal proceedings are ongoing just now, but can the Minister assure us that in the fulness of time there will be a full statement to this Parliament about exactly what went on and the sort of inquiry that my hon. Friend calls for.

Can I raise two final issues? We know about this thanks to the diligent work of organisations such as Reprieve, but it brings to our attention the issue of whistleblowers. We know that 99% of the time our security services serve us absolutely fantastically well, but things do go wrong and abuses happen, so is there not now a need for protection of whistleblowers and for public interest defences in relation to disclosures—for example, in relation to the National Security Bill going through Parliament just now?

On that Bill, does the Minister agree that, hypothetically, if UK agencies are found liable for damages for actions they undertake that lead to torture abroad, those damages should be paid? If so, why does the Bill—in clause 58 —appear to create new and unnecessary ways to avoid the security services having to meet those damages? How can that be justified in any way, shape or form?

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Before I call the next hon. Member, I want to emphasise that I have advised right hon. and hon. Members to exercise caution in what they say. However, just to be clear, I cannot force people to stick to that; it is my advice.

I want to try to get everybody in, but that means short questions—not a series of questions from now on, but a short question—so that the Minister is able to respond quickly. In that way, I can try to get everybody in.

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[Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

Like many of my constituents, I am deeply concerned to hear that Jagtar’s legal team have provided evidence that Jagtar’s detention and torture took place following a tip-off by MI5. I am absolutely appalled by the Minister’s comments in the Chamber today, which show a lack of compassion and a lack of action on this issue. The Minister says he is unable to comment due to legal proceedings, but I believe it is in the Government’s gift, right now, to explain to the House what measures they are taking to remedy that. What review has taken place following what has happened? This is deeply concerning, and we cannot allow it to happen to many other people. I urge the Minister to clarify to the House whether a review has taken place, and what steps the Government have taken, instead of ducking and diving.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We really must make sure that questions are very brief, so that I can try to get everybody in.

[Rehman Chishti]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady says that Ministers lack compassion, but when I was the British envoy for religious freedom I worked tirelessly with partners around the world to help release individuals who were being persecuted for their faith. She asks what has been done, but I have answered the specific point. The matter is before the High Court, which is dealing with accusations and allegations regarding what information was shared with whom. That is a matter for the High Court. Let the High Court deal with this matter, and once it has, the hon. Lady is within her rights to bring the matter back in a question to the House.

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[Rehman Chishti]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for all the fantastic work that he does on freedom of religion or belief and supporting individuals who are persecuted for their faith around the world. He made a point about the UN working group on arbitrary detention, and that working group has given India until 2 November to respond to its findings. That date has been made clear to the Indian Government. The UK Government are clear, and I am clear, that we are committed to doing all that we can to support Mr Johal and his family.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier, you were clear about what is not exactly a regulation of the House but advice to Members on sub judice and privilege, and that was clearly broken and taken advantage of. I do not know about Government Members, but those on the Opposition side clearly saw it as an abuse of privilege. Frankly, I do not like it when Members become spokespersons for a foreign state. Given that a Member of this House has impugned the integrity of my constituent on the Floor of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, what is open to me as a constituency MP and those defending the rights of their constituents in the courts to ensure that such matters do not happen again?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point of order. I deliberately returned to the advice that I had previously given about Members exercising caution in their remarks. As I said, I cannot force people to follow that advice; it is merely advice. He has put on the record his strong view about what was said. If he wishes to pursue that in other ways, I am sure that the Clerks can advise him, but I really cannot add anything further to what I have previously said.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think that the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) was referring to the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and what he said. It is clear that the hon. Member for Harrow East was relying on the privilege given to him as a Member of this House to make those allegations, and it is equally clear that the allegations are contested. What mechanism is open to Members when information released under privilege is contested in such a way? Does the hon. Member not have to repeat it outside?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I cannot prevent Members from expressing their views. I am concerned that the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) is not here. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is customary to inform an hon. Member if they wish to raise something concerning them. It is open to the right hon. Member to raise the matter on another occasion, but I suggest that he informs the hon. Member that he is going to do so, as that would provide an opportunity for a response. I think that we will leave it at that.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I will take the hon. Gentleman’s point of order after the business statement from the Leader of the House.