Covid-19: Future UK-EU Relationship

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

Well, they never really have. They are no longer a force in Scottish politics—they been well beaten into third place. But we do not really bother about the Labour party in Scotland, just as we are increasingly not bothering about the Conservative party, who we are now beginning to trounce once again.

Then there are the Liberals, none of whom have turned up. [Interruption.] No—the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) may have turned up to make a speech, but she is not here for the wind-ups—which is rather discourteous, Madam Deputy Speaker, though I say so myself. She is not here, and neither are the other Scottish Liberals who made speeches today.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. May I clarify? Due to social distancing restrictions, people are not always required to be here, as previously. I know that the hon. Gentleman would not want to cast any aspersions.

[Pete Wishart]

I note that, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I apologise. But there are empty seats; if any of them want to come down, they will still find a few seats where they could sit down and participate in this debate.

The curious thing about the Liberal Democrats and their speeches is that they were not congratulated by these Benches but cheered on by the Tories. They made better Unionist speeches than you Tories! Probably the most thorough Unionists in the whole of Scotland just now are Liberal Democrats. Again, it is no wonder that they are down to God knows how many Members.

Back to the Conservative speeches. There is one that I have to single out, by the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont). It was absolutely and utterly appalling. He tried to suggest that a constitutional political party that has done nothing other than promote our cause civically and democratically is somehow anti-English and racist. That was an appalling slur, for which he should apologise. He is not here, but I tell him something—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Please—no yelling at each other. It is very unseemly.

[Pete Wishart]

I will tell the hon. Gentleman something about condemning things. I condemned what happened on the border a couple of weeks ago within an hour. I will condemn any of that type of activity: whether it is Unionists and loyalists protesting in Glasgow’s George Square, or whether it is activists on the border, I will condemn them. I invite the Scottish Conservatives to condemn those other protests too.

We all have great fun observing what is happening with the “negotiations”—these things that the Government turn up to with the EU. We in Scotland, I suppose, are just a bit more dispassionate about these things. We observe what is happening.

On the one side, we see the EU negotiating team, briefed to the eyeballs, with intimate knowledge of every detail of the withdrawal agreement and political declaration, negotiating in good faith and determined to protect the integrity of the single market and the institutions that have built up over the decades. Then the UK team turn up, and before they have even had the chance to lace up their clown shoes, the EU are running all over them.

The UK team are clueless—no idea what they want, constantly shifting the goal posts. I will tell the House what it is like: it is like the Scotland team of the 2020s out there on the field against the Brazil team of the 1970s. It is that one-sided. It is no wonder that the Europeans are running circles around them just now. It might all just be a clever ploy: perhaps the Government are setting things up to fail so that they get their coveted no deal, which is exactly what they are after. Nobody could be negotiating as badly and poorly as the UK team just now.

Scotland is making up its mind. A majority of people in Scotland now want it to be an independent nation; we have now reached sustained majority support. The thing is that we are doing well in not just the traditional communities—middle Scotland is joining us now. Do Members know who the most passionate supporters of Scottish independence are now? They are “no” voting remainers, who are flooding to our cause. I thank them for being the biggest recruiting sergeants for Scottish independence that we could possibly get. I thank them for driving many more people to the cause of Scottish independence.

[Ian Blackford]

Will my hon. Friend join me in giving some friendly advice to the Government? Devolution has been around for only 20 years—it is a relatively short time in our history. We are proud of our Parliament, and we want it to be independent. People have a real sense of pride, right across Scotland, in what our Parliament has achieved. I have to say in friendly terms to the Government that tomorrow they will introduce a White Paper—we know more about that now, and crucially, in that White Paper, they set up an unelected body that will determine whether or not the Acts of the Scottish Parliament are competent within the new framework that the UK is establishing. It is really quite remarkable—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. That is quite a long intervention. Pete Wishart.

[Ian Blackford]

If you say so, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is the most crucial measure on devolution and it is right that we raise the issue properly. I say to the

Deputy Speaker that Scotland’s voice will be heard.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. That was extremely rude.

[Ian Blackford]

I beg to differ—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I know they are, but there should be—[Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman must resume his seat. Pete Wishart.

[Pete Wishart]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right and spot on to be absolutely furious about what is planned for Scotland. Let me tell Government Members something. They are all bawling and screaming. Put the cameras on them—we want Scotland to see them screaming at us. We want to see them screaming at us—that builds support for us. [Interruption.] Keep on doing it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Blackford]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you, I am most grateful. I have received a press release, which has come from the UK Government this afternoon, about a White Paper that will be issued tomorrow morning. It covers the issues of the devolved institutions and the establishment of a UK-wide market. I have to say that we on this side of the House are absolutely furious that this matter has been briefed to the press. I have not, as was suggested earlier, been informed by “Newsnight”, but from elsewhere. Moreover, not only has this been briefed to the press, which I would suggest is discourteous to this House, but none of the devolved institutions has been informed of this White Paper ahead of the media briefings this evening.

Can I ask what mechanisms are open to us, now that we know this is in the public domain—yet the Minister has not sought to inform the House—to summon the Minister to explain this this evening? Moreover, the reason for the importance of this, despite what has been said from the Government Front Bench, is that it will lead, if it is passed, to the establishment of a body that will have oversight of legislation that comes in front of the devolved institutions. We will have to justify, for example, what we have done on tuition fees, or what we have done on the minimum pricing of alcohol. It is an attack on devolution pure and simple, and we must have the opportunity, now that the Government have communicated this to the media, to make sure that we hold this Government to account this evening and without delay.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and for giving me notice of it. I certainly got the impression that he made his feelings known about this during the course of the debate. I think the House is not unaware of that. With regard to a Minister coming to the House this evening, I have no notice of that, but I believe there is certainly going to be a statement tomorrow on this issue, and I am sure at that point he will have the opportunity to reiterate his views. In the meantime, those on the Treasury Bench have heard what he had to say, and will have noted it and will, I am sure, report back.

[Jacob Young]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I believe it was the right hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) who previously claimed it was “jaw-dropping” that the Government had not voted on an Opposition day motion, and she described abstaining as cynical. Given that the Labour party has chosen not even to show up to today’s Opposition day debate, can I seek your advice on how the House can know the right hon. Lady’s thoughts on the Labour party hiding from tonight’s vote?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

First, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will have given notice that he is referring to another Member before raising a point of order. Has he done that?

[Jacob Young]

No, I have not.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Well, he really ought to do that. If he is making comments about anybody else or what they have said, they absolutely have the right to be in the Chamber. Before we go any further—because, as I say, it is disrespectful not to have done that—it is very important that each Member of Parliament and each of us has the right to decide which way we vote. Sometimes hon. Members vote Aye, sometimes they vote No, sometimes they abstain. There may well come a point when the hon. Gentleman needs to make such a decision, so I do think it is important that in this House we respect each other’s right to make decisions about which way to vote.

[Shaun Bailey]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. As a relatively new Member to this House, I seek your clarification. My understanding is that it is our basic duty to our constituents to ensure that we turn up to debates and that we vote, irrespective of who instigates those debates. How is it compatible with that duty that the official Opposition both do not turn up to a debate and do not vote?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman did not quite hear what I just said. I can repeat it, but basically it was that I think it is very important that we all respect each other’s right to make decisions on the issue of voting. There may well come a point when the hon. Gentleman is not able to participate in a debate or does not want to participate in a debate, and at that point he may decide that he wishes to abstain. That is his right: it is the right of all of us. That is what I just said, so let us hope we are not going to have any further discussion on this issue.

Deferred Divisions

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 41A(3)),

That at this day’s sitting, Standing Order 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to the Motion in the name of Secretary Priti Patel relating to the Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism.—(Eddie Hughes.)

Question agreed to.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

We will have a brief two-minute suspension, just to make sure that the Dispatch Boxes are clean.