Energy Transmission Infrastructure (Carmarthenshire)

Debate between Roger Williams and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. Indeed, many tourism operators in my constituency believe that developments on this scale are a disincentive for them to invest further in the sector, which has been seen by all levels of government as a key part of our local economy.

Such is the scale of the proposed transmission project that there will be three different consultation processes before a final route is determined. We are currently in the middle of the first two consultation periods. One of the key elements of my submission to the first process was that local people feel that they are being excluded and that the process has not been open and transparent, with only selected organisations and community councils asked to contribute and no full public engagement.

The first consultation period is extremely significant, because following this initial stage the development company, Western Power Distribution, will have chosen a preferred route from four options. All four routes begin in the north of Carmarthenshire near technical advice note area G—which is the Labour Welsh Government’s jargon for the concentrated wind-generating development zone in the Brechfa forest—and terminate at the National Grid substation in Llandyfaelog in the south of the county. That is a connection distance of more than 30 km.

Villages such as Cwmffrwd, Idole and Llandyfaelog more than 20 miles away from Brechfa forest will now find themselves affected by a project many miles away. As I have said, they have been hoodwinked by the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the multinational companies building wind farms in the north of the county, because the subsequent transmission project is a fait accompli.

To balance matters out, perhaps I should aim my guns at the Labour Welsh Government as well. They determined the strategic development zones for energy generation. In the case of the Brechfa forest, they did so in the full knowledge that the local electricity grid had insufficient capacity to service the power generated by the new wind farms.

It is no good Labour Welsh Ministers saying, “Nothing to do with us, guvnor”, and pointing the finger at the Department of Energy and Climate Change. It is a dereliction of duty on their behalf to have selected strategic zones, in the case of Brechfa, so far away from the national grid that this large transmission infrastructure project is now required.

More than 200 people attended the public meetings that I have mentioned. It is fair to say that feelings ran extremely high. The major concern raised with us during those meetings was the visual impact of the poles that will support the overhead cables envisaged by Western Power Distribution. I am saying this not just because I am a native, but because Carmarthenshire is undoubtedly one of the most beautiful parts of the entire British Isles.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman and I share the privilege of representing part of the Brecon Beacons national park. Does he agree that many other parts of his lovely constituency have a landscape equivalent to that of a national park, and that the project will be a huge problem for the quality of such landscapes?

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. In areas of outstanding natural beauty, cables will have to go underground, but the Tywi valley, although extremely beautiful, is not designated as such and is therefore exempt, so that point is vital.

Carmarthenshire is known as the garden of Wales for good reason, with the Tywi valley hosting the National Botanic Garden of Wales and Aberglasney gardens, both of which are Welsh national treasures. During the public meetings I held on the issue, it was clear that only undergrounding the cables would be acceptable to those who attended.

That is the position of Carmarthenshire county council, which unanimously supported a Plaid Cymru motion:

“That Carmarthenshire County Council finds it totally unacceptable that the proposed Brechfa Forest wind farm(s) National Grid connection should be made via an overhead line supported by wooden pylons. As the Council itself has no statutory power in this matter, we ask the UK Energy Secretary to ensure that the connection cable is laid underground for its entire length”.

There is a clear precedent for undergrounding in Carmarthenshire. The Llyn Brianne hydroelectricity scheme in the north-east of my constituency was connected to the national grid via 20 miles of undergrounding in 1996.

In a one-sentence reply, the developers have stated that the cost of undergrounding is prohibitive. In this case, however, that is simply not good enough. In an answer to a parliamentary question, the Minister told me:

“In 2011, National Grid commissioned an independent study to give more clarity on the practicality, whole life costs and impacts of undergrounding and subsea cabling as alternatives to overhead lines. The Electricity Transmission Costing Study, prepared by technical experts and overseen and endorsed by the Institution of Engineering and Technology was published in January 2012… It contains estimated cost ranges for overhead lines and underground technologies.”—[Official Report, 8 July 2013; Vol. 566, c. 66W.]

Common Agricultural Policy

Debate between Roger Williams and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Roger Williams]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am glad that my contribution has caused so much interest in the Chamber.

The shadow Minister was rather fierce in his criticism of the Minister. Only yesterday, a Minister from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs came to the House to make a statement on the common fisheries policy. That was always seen to be intractable, yet the outcome seemed to have the support of the whole Chamber. Indeed, we hope that the CAP negotiations will meet with the same success.

It has been said that little progress has been made in reforming the CAP—the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham), who is no longer in his place, said so at the beginning of the debate—but I must remind everybody that 25 years ago CAP expenditure amounted to 75% of EU funding, whereas it now amounts to just over 40%. In that time, the amount spent by the average UK family on food has decreased from 25% of disposable income to about 15%, although sadly that trend is moving in the opposite direction because of the increases in commodity prices. Back in the 1980s, the CAP depended on market support and intervention through export subsidies and import tariffs, which were really trade-distorting implements and very unfair on developing countries. Things moved on, however, and in 1993 the MacSharry proposals introduced direct payments that were not so trade distorting, and in 2003, the Fischler proposals decoupled support, which was another step forward.

Why do we still need a CAP? It was first introduced to ensure that people working in agriculture and the countryside had incomes comparable to those in more urban and industrial occupations. Sadly, it has been unsuccessful in doing that, and incomes in the countryside are still less than in towns. Many farming businesses in this country would be making no profit at all, if it were not for direct payments.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

How concerned is the hon. Gentleman, therefore, about the drive towards a referendum on the British state’s membership of the EU based on renegotiated terms, including the repatriation of the CAP and convergence funding? How concerned is he about the impact that that would have on the industry in Wales?

[Roger Williams]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern. The Farmers Union of Wales has made it clear that is sees EU membership as fundamental to a successful Welsh agricultural sector.

We need resilience in our farming communities and businesses. As has been pointed out, farming businesses across the country have experienced poor conditions in the past two years. The Chairman of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee pointed out that for two years now the UK has been a net importer of cereals, whereas we used to be a net exporter. We need resilience in our farming businesses, therefore, if they are to survive from one difficult period to another period in which they can rebuild their resources and capital. We will experience great difficulties with food security over the coming years. With the world population now reaching 7 billion and probably reaching 9 billion by 2050, the demand for food will increase, and it is thought that northern Europe, particularly its maritime areas, might be well placed after climate change to maintain its agricultural production. We should be looking to the CAP to ensure that.

I ask the Minister to address a number of issues that have already been raised. The first is co-financing of voluntary modulation. The UK farming community is concerned about voluntary modulation, because it would put it at a competitive disadvantage against other countries that compete with us on food production. Co-financing, if possible, could mitigate some of the problems perceived by British agriculture. Secondly, the greening proposals should be as simple and easy to follow as possible. The last thing we want are complex proposals leading to penalties being applied to individual farmers or DEFRA. I was on the EFRA Committee when the single farm payment was first introduced. The Rural Payments Agency made a terrible mess of delivering those payments and, as a result, a lot of DEFRA money had to be returned to the EU, rather than being spent on supporting our agricultural sector, so simplicity is important. Some large-scale arable and horticultural businesses would be willing to forgo the greening element—30% of the single farm payment—in order to maintain their focus on commercial activity, so what proposals does the Minister have for using those elements not taken up by businesses?

Rural Bank Closures

Debate between Roger Williams and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Roger Williams]

There is a theme running through the interventions that I have taken so far. The problem is a responsibility for all the major banks, rather than for a specific bank in a particular town or community, or even in Harrow. Banks should come together and solve the problem.

Presteigne is not only a sleepy country town; it contains a number of innovative businesses such as Mangar International, which manufactures, designs and supplies rehabilitation and assisted living equipment of a sort not found anywhere else in the world. Teledyne Labtech manufactures microwave circuits, and there are a number of other businesses. We were lucky to have attracted those businesses through the Development Board for Rural Wales, and a number of manufacturing facilities sprang up in Presteigne of which we are proud and wish to hold on to. I cannot, however, see us being able to attract that type of development if there is no bank in Presteigne—it is unlikely that businesses will be attracted to areas where banking is not available.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate; he has made some pertinent points. Last month I had a letter from my bank, HSBC in Y Tymbl. It is closing, so perhaps I should declare an interest. This issue affects valley communities, as well as rural areas. What thought has the hon. Gentleman given to alternative banking models such as credit unions? In Ireland and the USA, for example, those are mainstream institutions, rather than being banking for the poor as they are in Wales at the moment. They also perform an important economic function by lending to small businesses. Could that be part of the solution?

[Roger Williams]

The hon. Gentleman anticipates a theme that I intended to expand later in my remarks. I value the work done by credit unions, but in the area of Wales with which I am familiar, they do not seem to enlarge and extend their capacity to provide facilities for businesses, or even mortgages, but work only at microfinancial level. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and in these extreme circumstances it may be that the mutual model will once again establish itself and become more important in our communities, which I would welcome.

The Presteigne chamber of commerce has a very active chair, Rosamund Black. She fears that the closure of HSBC will cause extreme inconvenience and hardship and seriously damage the structure of the town. She said to me that people use the bank for more than simple financial transactions; the staff provide a vital service in offering advice and helping to solve the banking queries of many residents, particularly the elderly, whom they help with bill payments and other financial transactions.

However, despite the efforts of the community—I pay particular tribute to the mayor of Presteigne, John Kendall, to the Assembly Member for Brecon and Radnorshire, Kirsty Williams, and to the chair of the chamber of commerce—they appear to have been unsuccessful in persuading HSBC to maintain the bank. Indeed, that closure will follow other closures.