President Trump: State Visit

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

I am sorry that the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) is not in his place, because I would like to respond to his arguments, particularly about the post-second world war situation and the need for peace and stability.

As a wee boy, on 4 September 1959, I walked with my mother from Maybole to Culzean castle in Ayrshire. I did so on that autumn day to view the coming of the then President of the United States, President Eisenhower, on his visit to Culzean castle. He was well known to the people of the small town of Maybole, where he had been made a freeman in 1946. He had also been given a suite of rooms in Culzean castle, called the Eisenhower suite, by the people of Scotland.

As many Members will know, Eisenhower was a five-star general who served as the supreme commander of the allied expeditionary force in Europe. Post-world war two, he became the first ever supreme commander of NATO. He was then President of the United States from 1953 to 1961—a time when the cold war gripped people with the fear that we faced the possibility of a third world war. He famously called Culzean castle his second White House, given that he visited it not only in the positions that he held but with his family on many occasions during his life.

However, that great American, who served us so well in the second world war as a supreme commander, who was the first commander of NATO and who became probably the greatest post-second world war Republican President, was only once—in 1959— allowed an informal visit to the United Kingdom. He was never afforded a state reception or the right to address Parliament, and he and the American people never complained once. He was able to engage informally. All we are asking is, if an informal visit was sufficient for that great President, who contributed so much to our society and to the defeat of fascism, why on earth are we rolling out the red carpet for a man who has only spread division and international instability?

The first foreign leader to be invited to address this Parliament was the President of France, on 23 March 1939, so it was not as if there was no precedent of having people coming on state visits or speaking to Parliament. We know that only two American Presidents in history have been afforded both a state visit and an invitation to address Parliament: Reagan and Obama. Bill Clinton was invited to address Parliament but did not receive a state visit, and George W. Bush received a state visit but was not invited to address Parliament.

Since the beginning of the 20th century, most American Presidents who have come to this country have come on informal visits; it is unusual for us to accord a state visit or the ability to address Parliament to American Presidents. If we do so for this President, who has created such international instability and such social division, we should think very carefully about what makes him deserving of a state visit. I would say that nothing does. This is a grubby and despicable manoeuvre by the Prime Minister.

Many years ago, the Scottish poet, Hugh MacDiarmid, said that, when he died, he wanted there to be a two-minute pandemonium. The only good thing I can see coming out of President Trump’s state visit is the opportunity for the citizens and parliamentarians of the nations of the United Kingdom to have a two-minute pandemonium in opposition.

US Immigration Policy

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

To the best of my knowledge, the President has himself dissociated himself from that characterisation of this policy, and I just remind the House that these seven countries do not comprise the entire Muslim world, and indeed, they are the very countries that were singled out by President Obama for thoroughly restrictive visa regulations.

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

Given that the Trump Administration seem intent on trading in man’s inhumanity to man, when was the first time the Secretary of State called his opposite number to express his disquiet?

[Boris Johnson]

As the hon. Gentleman may know, my putative opposite number has not been finally confirmed in office yet, but we have had abundant conversations with representatives of the Trump Administration about this policy.

Middle East

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

It is some years since I worked in the middle east, so what I am about to say is fashioned mainly from recent research that I have done, and that from the Commons Library. My short speech is not the one that I thought I would give. I had intended my speech to cover the broad sweep of the middle east, but given our debate thus far, perhaps it is better to leave that to another time and concentrate on the matter in hand, which is Syria.

For a long time I have had an interest—both professionally and in other ways—in the issue of capacity building in countries that have suffered from conflict, or that in some way need to rebuild their societies. I was particularly concerned the other day when I read this rather depressing comment from Manish Rai, who is editor of the geopolitical news agency, Viewsaround:

“Only time will tell who will win or lose this war. However, one thing is certain: Syria as a country has already lost the struggle for its survival. Perhaps in the future, coming generations will know through stories that a country once called Syria existed on the planet.”

Let us hope that his concerns and fears do not come to pass and that something can be done. The challenge facing any reconstruction is huge, and at times speakers in this debate have been rather glib in their expectations about what can readily and easily be done.

Let me recite a few of the facts that we know from United Nations agencies and others. The UN estimates that 8 million Syrians have been displaced from their homes, in addition to the 4 million who have fled their country—that is more than half of Syria’s entire pre-war population. According to the UN, 250,000 people have been killed, and half of those were civilians.

[Stephen Gethins]

Given those numbers, does my hon. Friend agree that we should pay tribute to the people of Jordan, Turkey and elsewhere in the region who are taking in so many refugees, and that the UK needs to help those countries by taking in more refugees?

[Roger Mullin]

I agree entirely, and in a Westminster Hall debate some weeks ago I argued that we must do more for the thousands upon thousands of orphaned children. It is estimated that 300 to 400 children have been captured by Daesh and put in camps to be trained as suicide bombers. Surely compassion compels us to do more for the most vulnerable in Syria at this time.

[Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con)]

If ISIL is to remain in the middle east, and more and more people are purged from that putative state, surely by removing those people from the middle east whom ISIL does not want we will be serving its purposes.

[Roger Mullin]

My concern is about the most innocent and vulnerable people. Of course we want an end to terrorism in the middle east, and this House will have to address—perhaps in a couple of days—the best means of accomplishing that. I suspect that I will disagree with the hon. Gentleman, but in my short speech I hope to set out the scale of the challenge of rebuilding Syria, whenever that can start.

[Rehman Chishti]

In defeating this evil organisation, we must defeat its ideology, appeal and self-proclaimed legitimacy. We must join our ally France in using the correct terminology, and I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman and his party for doing that and for not linking this evil organisation to Islam, which has nothing to do with it. This organisation are evil scum and we must describe them as that.

[Roger Mullin]

They are indeed evil scum. I pay tribute to the many Members who call this scum by their proper name of Daesh. A few weeks ago, Members who did so were few in number, but now there are many more. All those who use the correct terminology in this debate deserve credit. The hon. Gentleman is correct: there are huge ideological and cultural challenges to overcome. I would like to say a few words, however, on the practical challenge relating to infrastructure.

It was estimated recently that the productive capacity of Syria has been so degraded that it is 80% less than it was before the war broke out four years ago. Some 37% of all hospitals in Syria have been completely destroyed and a further 20% are so degraded they are unable to provide anything like the kind of service they provided in the past. There has been a significant destruction of health, education, transport, water, sanitation and energy infrastructure. Indeed, it has reached the stage where some commentators estimate that if the war were to end today and Syria embarked immediately on 5% economic growth—that is highly unlikely—it would take 30 years to return to the economic situation it was in in 2010.

In addition to the destruction of infrastructure, there is the difficulty we will have in entering the area to start to rebuild it. I am the chairman of the all-party group on explosive weapons and I have carried out some investigations into that situation in Syria. As well as the degradation of infrastructure, the Syrian Government have been using both anti-personnel mines, manufactured in Russia, and cluster munitions. Both are deemed illegal under the Ottawa convention. Daesh uses both cluster munitions and improvised explosive devices as landmines. This build-up of the huge detritus of war will have to be cleared before any real development can take place. There is currently no mine action programme in Syria to remove any of it. This is understandable, given that the conflict is still under way. In fact, the situation is so unusual that non-state parties—terrorist groups—have been known to dig up landmines from Israeli minefields along the Golan Heights and attempt to reuse them for their own purposes. The number of victims of explosive weapons, predominantly civilians, is already huge. The conflict in the Falklands 33 years ago was relatively small, yet the UK has still not fully cleared all the landmines from the Falkland Islands. I say that not to condemn the United Kingdom, but to think about the challenge facing Syria given the state of destruction that has already taken place.

[Mrs Moon]

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but I have visited the Falkland Islands many times. The problem the Falkland islanders have is that the mines have sunk into peat. It would be more difficult and destructive to remove the mines than to leave them there.

[Roger Mullin]

I accept that that is true in some regards. However, a UK Government programme is still under way and money is still being spent to encourage further clearance, so it seems the UK Government do not accept that that is the situation in every case. In any case, I make the point to highlight the fact that we will face a huge challenge in Syria. It is one that this House would do well to address.

Child Suicide Bombers

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of use of children as suicide bombers.

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans, but it is sad, to say the least, that it is in a debate on such a tragic and difficult topic. I welcome the Minister. I am very aware that he has faced a personal family tragedy related to an act of terrorism that included a suicide bombing. I am indebted to him for his willingness to speak in the debate, and I very much look forward to his contribution.

Although, like most people, thankfully, I have not suffered in the same way as the Minister’s family, I have had some contact over the years with situations of conflict. Although those do not constitute a declarable interest, it is perhaps appropriate briefly to establish my own background and interest in the topic. I have worked at times in places that have suffered from serious conflict. At one stage in my career, I was briefly surrounded by heavily armed individuals in Aden in Yemen, fearing that I might be about to be kidnapped. Fortunately, the situation was resolved, but I still remember the feeling of fear and helplessness. I have tutored around eight undergraduate and postgraduate prisoners in the H-blocks of the Maze prison in Northern Ireland, including some found guilty of bombings. I have worked in places such as the Namibia-Angola border not long after a major conflict. Perhaps in part because of that background, I am now the chair of the all-party group on explosive weapons.

I have for many years been an observer of conflict. I am drawn to this debate because of my judgment that we have entered a new era that brings with it some horrendous developments, of which child suicide bombers is, for me, the most awful. Although the first recorded suicide bomber was a young Russian called Ignacy Hryniewiecki, who in 1881 blew himself up along with the Russian Tsar, suicide bombings were comparatively rare until very recently. During world war two, the Japanese military at times used suicide missions, but it was never a regular or major feature of large-scale armed conflicts. I believe that developments that now mean that some states wage war on terrorist groups with such advanced technological weaponry that it is no longer a case of facing armies or armed groups face to face are a contributory factor to the rise in suicide bombings. Thus, when cruise missiles or drones are used, those on the receiving end increasingly turn to new forms of conflict and new targets.

The 21st century has become the age of the suicide bomber, and suicide bombing is growing exponentially as a chosen form of combat. A recent report by Action on Armed Violence revealed that in 2014 there were no fewer than 3,463 civilian casualties from suicide bombings, but in the early months of 2015, the number was already around 5,000. I would like to acknowledge the work of Action on Armed Violence and of UNICEF, both of which are observing today’s debate, and I hope to do them some justice. The weekend death toll of the attack in Turkey, which appeared to target demonstrators for peace, is a further example of how devastating such attacks can be.

A study by the University of Chicago claims that 36 countries have suffered from suicide bombings, with more than 30,000 people killed over the past 30 years, including in the UK and, of course, in this city in particular. I must, too, acknowledge an attempted suicide bombing at Glasgow airport. The number of failed attempts worldwide is unknown, but even fails can often cause alarm and affect people’s way of life.

What and who are suicide bombers? They are highly effective, because the perpetrator functions as a sophisticated guidance system for the weapon. Whereas advanced states can use technological guidance systems, terrorist groups increasingly use human beings, either on foot or in vehicles. Suicide bombers therefore operate as part guided weapons system, part weapon. Often, these attacks happen far away from a traditional battlefield, if such a battlefield even exists, and strike at the heart of civilian life, including religious or ethnic groups and economic and cultural targets. Their impact is psychological as well as physical, causing fear and disruption to daily activity. Some of the most horrific attacks appear to have simply targeted as many civilians as possible in urban areas.

Suicide bombers have often been associated with extremist groups such as Daesh and Boko Haram, but the phenomenon is escalating beyond those notorious groups. Most academic studies of what motivates suicide bombers address adults, which is perhaps unsurprising given that children as suicide bombers is a comparatively recent phenomenon. Such studies that exist, such as those of those of Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago and Professor Scott Atran of France’s Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique and the University of Michigan, can at times draw different conclusions, but they agree that overly simplistic views such as those of ex-President George Bush, who said that the suicide bomber

“hates freedom, rejects tolerance, and despises dissent”,

are, to quote Professor Atran,

“hopelessly tendentious and wilfully blind”.

Such comforting simplicity is no basis for understanding, let alone for constructing a policy. We need to understand much more about the motives and beliefs of adults before we can understand fully their motives for choosing to use children. One thing seems sure: addressing the problem by military means alone will do little to stop the spread of this horrendous practice.

The escalation in recent years of suicide bombings is happening along with the growth in using children as suicide bombers. The exploitation of children, treating them as mere dispensable tools of conflict, is a development that we do not fully understand. Such details as are becoming known confirm the need for everyone to refocus and do more to understand and address this trend. Examples of the growth in recent times of child suicide bombers are sadly not hard to find. It is claimed that some are as young as seven, although confirmation is often difficult. The youngest UK citizen to become a suicide bomber was 17-year-old Talha Asmal, who in June this year was involved in an attack in Iraq. It seems only a matter of time before even younger children among our own community become involved, unless we can find more effective preventive actions.

The scale of the problem worldwide is truly shocking. Take the case of Iraq. The Iraqi Independent Commission for Human Rights recently estimated that more than 1,000 children have been trained as suicide bombers in the six months up to May 2015. Think of it—1,000 children. In 2014, the United Nations Human Rights Council found that Daesh was recruiting

“children into armed roles under the guise of education”

and that they were being

“deployed in active combat missions during military operations, including suicide bombing missions”.

In Nigeria since July 2014, the latest information shows that there have been nine suicide bombings involving children between the ages of seven and 17, all of whom were girls. Many of the attacks in Afghanistan are carried out by children. It is reported that some as young as nine have been intercepted. Often trained in Pakistani madrassahs, they are very susceptible to indoctrination. There are reports that in Afghanistan, child suicide bombers are sometimes given an amulet containing Koranic verses, which they are told will protect them from the explosion.

Given the current crisis in Syria, it is instructive to note that Daesh is increasingly using suicide bombings involving children. Indeed, hundreds of children are undergoing training as suicide bombers in camps in Syria and Iraq. Daesh calls these children, “Cubs of the Caliphate”. There are several reports of hundreds of children being kidnapped by Daesh and forced into their camps. In February, a Daesh video was released showing a training camp for children. Renate Winter, a member of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, claimed that many of the children being used as suicide bombers “are mentally challenged” and will have little or no idea of what is happening to them. It therefore seems probable that some of the young children being used are particularly susceptible to exploitation.

Furthermore, ongoing conflict in Syria and Nigeria is uprooting families and leading to many thousands of unaccompanied and separated children, who then become particularly vulnerable to terrorist groups. Put simply, it is comparatively easy to kidnap children under no one’s care. That is partly why I am particularly keen for the UK to welcome as many unaccompanied child refugees as possible.

However, it is, of course, not only via camps that children can be indoctrinated. The internet is well used by terrorists, radical clerics and others as a means of getting to young people and turning them. Indeed, there are as many channels for indoctrination as there are methods of training and education, yet it seems that the terrorists are ahead of the game in many respects. We need to know more and do more to protect children.

Wider concerns are now being expressed regarding child suicide bombers. UNICEF, for example, is concerned that the trend in child suicide bombers could lead to children increasingly being viewed as potential threats, placing many children at further risk. Furthermore, according to UNICEF, tens of thousands of children are receiving some form of psychological support as a result of the effects of conflict. People in psychological distress may be additionally vulnerable in many situations.

What is to be done? I have four matters to put to the Minster for reflection. First, we need to know much more about this phenomenon. Knowledge is a key requirement for effective action. Do the Government have any plans to increase funding for research in this area, and will they take a lead internationally in calling for and co-ordinating a much better resourced and focused investigation into the patterns and causes of suicide bombing involving children?

Secondly, will the Government take a lead in bringing together existing practice in providing education and psychological services aimed at counteracting the indoctrination of children?

Thirdly, will the Government at least consider putting together a taskforce, which may include cross-party membership as well as an appropriate range of professional experts, aimed at assessing the risks posed to young people in the UK and making recommendations to Government?

Finally, will the Government specifically aim to take in unaccompanied refugee children as part of their refugee relief programme?

As a new MP and one from Scotland, it would have been easy to avoid this difficult topic and to seek a debate on some domestic issue that was much less harrowing. Indeed, I know that some people may question whether this should be a political priority of mine; after all, I am not a spokesperson on either defence or foreign affairs. However, I am sure, that the Minister will fully agree at least about the importance of this topic.

--- Later in debate ---

[Roger Mullin]

I pay tribute to everyone who participated in the debate. I hope that it has been an important opening up of an issue to which we will no doubt return in different settings in the coming months, before we find better ways of moving forward. I am particularly grateful to the Minister for his response to my suggestions. I would like to reflect on a couple of matters.

One is about the need for research. I heard what was said about the Government having undertaken internal reviews and talked to academics and the like, but we need more of what academics call primary research. It struck me that when looking at the emerging numbers and patterns, we are inevitably drawn to make assumptions about motives and the motivations for what has happened, and I am as much at fault as anybody in this debate. However, rather than base our understanding on assumptions made through the prism of our culture and where we are based, we need more primary research to get into the hearts and minds of those involved in these horrendous activities. Such research would be tremendously difficult to undertake. Academics have made a few forays into the field, but we need to consider how more could be done to understand properly the motives and connections that lie behind these activities. I hope that the Government will continue to think about how they can improve their knowledge base.

Secondly, I ask the Government to pay further attention to refugees. I heard and understood what the Minister said about the assessments of who are appropriate refugees coming from other agencies, but the Government provide those agencies with the brief setting out their concerns. I ask the Government to ensure that there is sufficient resource and back-up available in the UK and that those agencies that undertake assessments on behalf of the Government, as part of the refugee programme, pay attention to the problem of unaccompanied children.

In the past couple of weeks, I have spoken to different agencies involved in providing counselling and psychological services in my constituency, including a migrants forum that provides befriending services and the like. I assure the Minister that people in the voluntary sector, as well as the statutory sector, could provide better meaningful support here to some of those young children than can be given in a camp, and I am sure that that is true for many parts of the country. I simply ask the Government to give that matter further consideration.

The main thing that I want to say to everybody is thank you for participating in the debate. It has been important and I hope that we will all charge ourselves with the task of keeping a strong focus on the issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the matter of use of children as suicide bombers.

Iran: Nuclear Deal

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

As my hon. Friend would expect, I shall put the case for the agreement to the Israeli Prime Minister, and I have no doubt that I shall hear, in great detail, his case against it.

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

In 1991, I sat in the office of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, having a fairly robust discussion about the plans in relation to Iraq at that time and, in particular, the prospect of transporting nuclear waste. Will the Foreign Secretary tell us how the issue of the nuclear waste that is being generated will be handled as a result of the agreement?

[Mr Hammond]

I am not sure that I quite understand the question. At present, Iran does not have a functioning civil nuclear power generation programme. The position is very clear, however. Under the agreement, there are restrictions on the amount of enriched uranium, even at 3.67%, that Iran can hold. Any excess must be immediately and irreversibly converted back into a different form, or else exported. The Russians, who have been extremely helpful during the negotiations, have agreed to act as an export point for any material that Iran needs to export to comply with the agreement.