Safety of School Buildings

Debate between Roger Gale and Liz Twist

Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

It is natural for parents to worry about their children, but, over the past few years, they have had quite a lot to worry about: the pandemic causing disruption to education; the risks posed by online harms; and the challenges posed to families now by the cost of living crisis. Those are all issues that we hear about time and again from constituents who are doing their best to bring up their children in these difficult times.

One place where parents expect their children to be kept safe is at school, and they would surely expect that, if there were a risk to their children’s safety, they might be informed about it. As things stand, though, many parents are not even aware that their children are attending schools in which the buildings have reached such a state of disrepair that there is a significant risk of collapse. For more than a year, Conservative Ministers have known that some of these buildings have posed a risk to life, but the Government will still not be transparent about the condition of all of those schools and the danger that children may face.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) talked earlier about the issue of asbestos in schools, and I can only reiterate the concerns that he raised. The condition of buildings continues to worsen. In 2017, the National Audit Office reported that it would cost £6.7 billion to return all school buildings to a satisfactory or a better condition. It also said that there was significant risk that further deterioration would increase these costs, with the DFE estimating that the cost of returning to schools to a satisfactory condition would double between the financial years of 2015-16 and 2020-21.

Indeed, by 2021 the DFE reported a repair bill of more than £11 billion. Its survey shone a light on crumbling buildings and leaking facilities, schools still using ancient “temporary” portacabins, and, in some cases, buildings riddled with asbestos. This picture suggests that the Government have failed to get to grips with the problem that they themselves had previously identified. It was also perhaps the inevitable outcome of a halving in real-terms capital spending on schools and other educational establishments between 2009-10 and 2020-21. The lack of public data on the condition of school buildings has meant that we are not even able to properly see what the impact of this decline looks like.

As of the end of last year, the Government’s school rebuilding programme has identified 400 schools for rebuilding work. I am happy, as I said earlier, that some schools in my constituency are on that list, but they cannot keep waiting. I want to see schools, not promises. The work is urgent. According to the DFE’s own data, my local authority of Gateshead has 43 schools that have received the worst rating for at least one aspect of their buildings.

The Prime Minister has said that he sees no reason why the UK cannot rival the best education systems in the world, and we all want that, but is he really content to let children sit between crumbling walls and under collapsing roofs, with parents and staff not alerted to the risks? In the schools that I visit every week, teachers, students and in some cases parents do a great job to make schools look cheerful, colourful and vibrant, whatever their condition, but surely they deserve to know the condition of their school, and we all need to know that information, so I hope the Minister will respond by agreeing to publish it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

Order. Just before I call the Front-Bench speakers, I place on record the fact that the Chair of the Education Committee has indicated to those on the Front Bench and to the Chair that he has had to absent himself for urgent personal reasons, which we understand.

Bees: Neonicotinoids

Debate between Roger Gale and Liz Twist

Wednesday 2nd February 2022 Westminster Hall

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a great speech setting out this issue. Does he agree that our constituents are really concerned about this issue and do not understand the Government’s reasoning? As far as they are concerned, bees need to be protected, and that must include this issue. Can I also put a plug in for another reverend, Rev. Tom Jamieson in my constituency, who works with an organisation called North East Young Dads and Lads, which is building links and bonds through beekeeping?

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Order. I am conscious of the fact that, though a number of Members present are not on the speakers list and have not put in to speak, they are taking advantage of interventions to make speeches. Interventions are interventions.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Roger Gale and Liz Twist

Monday 19th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Order. In the expectation that there may be other interventions, can we make them interventions and not speeches?

[Liz Twist]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. I certainly agree that we must listen to the voices of young people—I will talk about that in a moment—and that we need to have a full picture.

It is particularly relevant to note the walk-out today because the lead petitioner, Ciaran O’Doherty, is a young man, 15 years of age, who has given a lot of thought to the issue. I have been fortunate to receive a personal email from Ciaran, who lives in Northern Ireland and is very aware of the potential impact of leaving the European Union on his life and that of his family and friends. For him, the debate is not theoretical, but one he feels will have a real impact on his life. Brexit will, of course, affect all our lives, but there is an additional element here, with the focus on the Irish border. It is my job today to present the arguments on behalf of the petitioners and to press the Government on the points that the petition raises.

I would like to deal in turn with each of the matters that the petition raises. First, on deal or no deal, has an agreement been reached with the EU before the deadline for leaving? Then there is the impact of no deal on businesses; the impact of no deal on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland on citizens; and the impact on EU citizens generally. The petitioners go on to say that if no deal has been reached Brexit should be stopped, because of how people, and particularly in Northern Ireland, would be adversely affected. The lead petitioner says that

“leaving with no deal will be very bad for businesses and for the Irish border issue and for EU citizens living here.”

Taking each of the issues in turn, I hope to present the views of the petitioners and seek the Minister’s response.

First, on deal or no deal, has an agreement been reached with the European Union before the deadline for leaving? Do we have a deal or not? The petition is premised on the issue of whether we have a deal and, if so, on whether it addresses the concerns in the petition, particularly those relating to Northern Ireland. Over the next days and weeks there will be much debate in the House and elsewhere about whether the deal set out in the Prime Minister’s statement last Thursday and the provisions in the documents can be agreed. Judging from the long and heated questions following that statement, it appears unlikely that the current proposed withdrawal agreement will be accepted. For Labour, my party, it is clear that the deal fails to meet the six tests we have set out to protect, among other things, the economy, jobs and workers’ rights. Other parties and other Members have their own reasons for finding the deal unacceptable.

The question of the Northern Ireland border is key to the debate, and from where we stand now, it seems highly unlikely that when it comes to the vote in December the agreement will be approved—but, as they say, a week can be a long time in politics. I cannot read the minds of the petitioners, but I wonder whether their concerns for business, for peace in Northern Ireland and for European citizens living in the UK mean that many of them would find the proposed deal acceptable. What is absolutely clear is that they believe that no deal is such a concern that, in the event of that and of their concerns not being met, Brexit must be stopped.

On the impact of no deal on businesses, the petitioners are concerned about how leaving without a deal will affect business in the UK. Many businesses have expressed concern about the uncertainty about arrangements post-Brexit and also about what will happen if we leave the European Union without a deal. There are fears about disruption to just-in-time production methods hampering productivity, fears about transporting goods across borders and backlogs at customs controls, and fears about World Trade Organisation tariffs making businesses less competitive. Those are genuine concerns for many businesses and, of course, it is businesses that create and maintain jobs. The Government say that they are working hard to prepare for a no-deal scenario, but few people think that with less than five months to go before we leave the European Union all those issues can be properly addressed. The petitioners believe that if we face no deal we must stop Brexit.

Turning to the impact of no deal on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, it will be important to address businesses’ fear that no deal would result in a hard border, which could affect Northern Ireland’s future prosperity badly. Northern Ireland’s economy does not stop at the border and neither do the communities on the island. Any barriers may mean the disruption of trade, but they also mean disruption to how people have lived for generations, with families, and in some cases even houses, straddling the border. There is much talk of a technical solution to the customs issues, but does one really exist or are those just fine words that butter none of the metaphorical parsnips? Why is it that no other country in the world uses such technological workarounds, if they really exist and are fit for use? Most important of all is the concern of the lead petitioner and, I am sure, many of the petitioners, about what a hard border might mean for political stability and peace. It took a long time to get to the Good Friday agreement and to where we are today.

Ciaran tells me that he is not old enough to remember the troubles but that his parents do. He and they fear that leaving the EU without a deal will introduce a hard border and be a backward step if we wish to ensure that all people in Northern Ireland are able to live together peacefully. That is not just a concern of Ciaran’s; the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland recently expressed his concerns about the impact of a hard border. For Ciaran and other young people, who thankfully do not remember those earlier times, this must be a real worry and we owe it to them to settle the issue in a thoughtful way that does not put at risk the relative peace and stability of Northern Ireland and does not start to re-erect barriers—real or virtual—that could hamper that.

The petitioners are concerned about the impact of a no-deal Brexit on EU citizens already in the UK. EU citizens are a large part of our workforce in some sectors, and do a great job, whether in agriculture, health, social care or elsewhere. Many European Union citizens have already left the UK, fearing that they will be in a worse position if they stay here.