Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Robin Walker and Carla Lockhart

Wednesday 20th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments. He is one of those who has pressed hard on this issue. We recognise the urgency of this matter, but we also recognise the huge challenges facing the Executive, and indeed every part of Government, relating to the covid situation. We want progress on this issue. We would prefer that to be delivered by the devolved institutions, but as I said, we stand ready to act if that progress is not made.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]]

It is still a matter of deep regret that the overwhelming view of the people of Northern Ireland, in wanting to protect life, was and is still disregarded by those in this place. I take a contrary view to the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry). On implementing what the Government term adequate abortion provision in Northern Ireland, is the Minister concerned that under Northern Ireland’s abortion regulations, sex-selective abortion is permitted? The regulations permit abortion for any reason up to 12 weeks, within which time it is possible to determine the sex of the foetus. What measures will he take to address this matter of deep concern?

[Mr Walker]

I recognise that the hon. Lady has taken a consistent and firm position on this issue. The Government take this issue seriously. It is about protecting the rights of women and girls. The regulations in Northern Ireland, as she will recognise, do not make any reference to sex-selective abortion. They follow the same approach as those in the rest of the UK on this issue. The Government publish an annual analysis of the male-female birth ratio for England and Wales to see whether any evidence of this issue arises. The latest reports show no evidence that this is an issue in England and Wales. We will continue to report on the sex birth ratio, and will work with the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency to consider including Northern Ireland in this analysis in future years. In the meantime, we will continue to monitor the implementation of the regulations, and urge the Executive to move forward with commissioning.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Robin Walker and Carla Lockhart

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

I think that we all recognise the importance of this issue. I understand that sexual and reproductive health clinics are providing some services consistent with the regulations. I am pleased that an interim solution has been reached on the ground in Northern Ireland so that the health and safety of women and girls can be protected by accessing services locally. We all want the Executive to be able to move forward with formal commissioning of further services, and we will continue to support them in doing that.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Minister will be aware that tomorrow marks the commencement of Down’s Syndrome Awareness Month, when we celebrate Down’s syndrome, raise awareness and promote inclusivity within our society. With that in mind, what assessment has he made of the impact of the Government’s decision to allow for termination to birth for diagnosis of Down’s syndrome in Northern Ireland? Does he agree that many people see this as disability discrimination within the womb that would otherwise be illegal outside of the womb?

[Mr Walker]

Let me first join the hon. Lady in supporting all those living with and supporting people with Down’s syndrome. There is absolutely no intention whatsoever for any form of discrimination. As I repeatedly made clear in the debate on the regulations, they do not list specific conditions but rather ensure that we have complied with what CEDAW—the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women—requires. These are complex decisions. It is only right that women can make individual, informed decisions, following medical assessments, clear provision of information and proper support from medical professionals. That support should be there in cases where they choose to take their pregnancies to term even in cases of severe foetal impairment. We will continue to support the Department of Health and the Executive to deliver on this issue.

Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Debate between Robin Walker and Carla Lockhart

Monday 8th June 2020 General Committees

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman is perhaps referring to litigation that is under way, which I of course cannot comment on. What I can say is that we gave very careful consideration, both in the consultation itself and in the follow-up to it, to all aspects of this legislation. We decided to follow the approach of GB law by not specifying particular conditions, but being clear that the approach to severe foetal impairment has to be for the individual woman, in consultation with medical professionals. We think that is the right approach; it is the approach established elsewhere in the UK, and indeed in many other jurisdictions.

The CEDAW report does not recommend or mandate specifics of how access should be provided. In particular, it is silent on issues such as gestational time limits for legal abortion, which it leaves open to the state to determine. The key requirement is to ensure access to services for women and girls in the circumstances I have set out, and abortions should be delivered as part of sexual and reproductive health services.

We recognise that this is a sensitive and personal issue for many people. We have heard many differing views about abortion in this House and the other place over the past 12 months, including in the debates on the reports under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019. I extend my thanks to all hon. Members who have engaged with me over recent months in discussions about these regulations, and have contributed views and shared insights from the wider engagement that they have been having with a range of constituents and other stakeholders.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Minister refers to the fact that a number of people have contributed to this debate, but does he not accept that the Northern Ireland Assembly—the place where this should be debated and decided upon—was unable to contribute to the debate and articulate its view? It voted on Thursday. Why has this Committee not taken cognisance of that vote?

[Mr Walker]

I respect the hon. Lady and the position from which she is arguing, but the Northern Ireland Assembly has had many opportunities to take forward these issues and provide a framework that would address the requirements of CEDAW, and it has not taken them. As she refers to the debate, I reiterate what I said in response to the urgent question last week: the Northern Ireland Assembly chose to vote on one aspect of these regulations and said that it did not like it. It did not debate the full details of the regulations themselves, and it did not provide a way forward that is compliant with CEDAW. I am very happy for it to debate these issues and take them forward, but it must do so in a way that is CEDAW compliant. It has every right to do that and reform these regulations, should it choose to do so in a way that is CEDAW compliant.

I appreciate that this is an issue on which views are deeply held, and I respect the fact that people coming at it from either side of the argument are doing so with the best interests of others in mind. I have no doubt that the arguments that we will hear today, across the whole spectrum of opinion on the subject, come from the heart and will be well informed. The starting point for the framework was that, as a result of the repeal of sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, from 22 October 2019 carrying out an abortion is no longer a criminal offence, except for late-term abortion, to which the offence of destroying a child capable of being born alive would still apply.

In relation to complying with the statutory duty on the Government, our overarching policy aims were to ensure that the framework protects and promotes the health and safety of women and girls, provides clarity and certainty for the medical profession, and is responsive and sensitive to the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly being restored from January, where our legal obligation remained to act on this issue.

Towards the end of last year, we publicly consulted on the proposals for the new legislative framework. The consultation gave people and organisations in Northern Ireland an opportunity to provide input and views on how we could best deliver an abortion framework consistent with our statutory duty. We were clear in that consultation that this is not about whether the Government should deliver on our statutory duty, but rather about how we can most effectively deliver a framework as required.

The Government have engaged with a range of stakeholders in Northern Ireland during this process and in recent months, including political parties, medical professionals, women’s groups, abortion service providers, trade unions, civil society organisations, individuals with lived experience and church groups. We listened to feedback expressed in the consultation process and through various engagements, and we have responded accordingly. We have sought to balance the range of views against our statutory duty, and to take pragmatic decisions informed by evidence.

Many stakeholders have welcomed the regulations, including the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. It is our firm view that the regulations provide a new legislative framework that is operationally sound, works best for Northern Ireland and delivers on the Government’s statutory duty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Walker]

As I said, we set out in our response to the consultation the detail of how each of the decisions in this process was reached. We recognise that the situation ante this regulation in Northern Ireland was that the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 had already removed the criminal sanctions, so we were under an obligation to create a framework, then reimpose criminal sanctions outside of that framework. That is the way in which we have addressed this.

We are clear that this is a situation in which CEDAW requires us to ensure that women and girls cannot be prosecuted for these regulations, and the regulations should not have—as, unfortunately, it was clear from some of the consultation responses, the criminal law previously did have in Northern Ireland—a chilling effect on availability, nor erect any barriers to access.

[Carla Lockhart]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Walker]

I will make a little bit of progress and allow the hon. Lady to come in before the end. Access to abortion services in Northern Ireland is now a matter for the Northern Ireland Department of Health, as well as the Health and Social Care Board and the Health and Social Care Trust, to take forward, as a new health service.

We continue to have full respect for the devolution settlement, recognising that health is a devolved matter, and to that extent have ensured that, where possible and practical, the regulations can be developed over time, in a way that works best for Northern Ireland by Northern Ireland. For example, the approval power for the Northern Ireland Department of Health to approve new locations in which services can be provided will allow it to respond to service needs and development over time, as the services are commissioned and embedded into health and social care settings in Northern Ireland.

Some interim service provision on the ground in Northern Ireland has now commenced, with early medical abortion services being provided as part of the existing sexual and reproductive health services in the Belfast, northern and western trust areas. This is to ensure access on the ground during covid-19, before fuller services have been commissioned by the Health and Social Care Board.

Of course, abortion remains a devolved issue in Northern Ireland going forward. That means that the Assembly is able to legislate further on abortion, subject to the usual Assembly and other procedures, including compliance with the European Convention on Human Rights. The UK Government will continue to ensure that we abide by our domestic and international legal obligations. The Government stand ready to provide whatever support and guidance we can both to the Northern Ireland Minister of Health and the Department of Health, to assist them in progressing work to set up abortion services in line with our new legislative framework.

As set out in our response to the consultation, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has written to the relevant Northern Ireland Ministers to ensure the implementation of all the recommendations under paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report, and the Northern Ireland Office will continue to work closely with the Department of Health and other Northern Ireland Departments in continuing to progress this work.

I hope that the Committee will support these regulations. We believe that they will fully deliver on the requirements placed on the Government by section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 and allow us to move forward in a way that protects the safety of women and girls in Northern Ireland, will remove over time the need for travel for women and girls facing extremely difficult circumstances, and provide certainty and a clear framework for medical professionals. I commend these regulations to the Committee.

Victims of the Troubles: Payment Scheme

Debate between Robin Walker and Carla Lockhart

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend makes a really important point, and it is one of the points that we were seeking to address in the way we approached the victims’ payment scheme when it was consulted on and when it was set out. It is so true that there are so many people who suffered injuries, both physical and psychological, during the troubles who deserve our acknowledgement and support. That is one of the reasons why we want to get this scheme active as soon as possible.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

In my constituency of Upper Bann, hundreds of homes still bear the scars of the terrorist campaign that brought much needless bloodshed and loss of life to our community. The suffering of those victims of terrorism cannot continue amidst this wrangle. I welcome the Minister’s recognition that Sinn Féin is the stumbling block on this matter, but does he recognise that the legislation passed in this House enables victims throughout the UK to receive this pension? Has he done any costings for the full implementation of the scheme, and will he expect the Northern Ireland Executive to pay for those outside Northern Ireland and across the UK?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady is right that the response to the consultation set out that this would cover victims across the UK, and that is built into the approach. She will recognise that the vast majority of victims—I think she made the point herself in terms of her own constituency—will be in Northern Ireland or from Northern Ireland. The basis of this scheme was what was agreed in the 2014 Stormont House agreement, and it was on that basis that it was something for the Executive to take forward. Of course, the UK Government want to support the Executive with that process, and we will continue to work closely with them to make sure it is delivered as effectively as possible across the whole of the UK.

Abortion Regulations: Northern Ireland

Debate between Robin Walker and Carla Lockhart

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My right hon. Friend, who played a significant role as Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee in the genesis of all this, makes important points. She will recognise that many aspects of implementation are in the hands of the Northern Ireland Department of Health, but she raises some extremely important matters, all of which we discussed during the consultation with some of the key medical professional bodies with which we engaged. She mentioned facilities and training. Those are important aspects of what will need to be delivered, but those responsibilities now fall on the Northern Ireland Department of Health. I assure my right hon. Friend that we will provide them with the support that they need. I know that my colleagues in the Department for Health and Social Care are also keen to lean in and provide any support on that front. We want this to move forward quickly. We recognise that the focus on covid-19 has presented specific challenges in the short term, but we want to ensure that the full range of services is available as soon as possible so that we can meet the challenge of providing human rights-compliant services to women and girls in Northern Ireland.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

“It makes me feel like I shouldn’t exist.” Those are the words of Heidi Crowter, who was born with Down’s syndrome. The Government, whether we like it or not, continue to ride roughshod over the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland. They are discriminating against people who have non-fatal disabilities and going far beyond their legal requirement. They have implemented the most liberal abortion laws in the whole of Europe. Will the Minister recognise the severe offence that the regulations cause to people with disabilities and also that the clear will of the devolved institutions is that the regulations are not wanted in Northern Ireland? What is the Minister’s message today to Heidi Crowter, who says that she feels she should not exist in this society if the regulations go ahead? [Interruption.] As I stand in this House, speaking on something I feel passionately about, I hear a little baby cry. I heard my own baby cry at 5 o’clock this morning—quite early. Both lives matter. It is not just about women’s health, but about both lives. It is not the Government’s right to impose such liberal abortion laws on Northern Ireland that will see abortion up to birth for disability.

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady speaks very powerfully, as she always does, on this issue. Of course, nobody in the House wants to regulate or legislate in any way to the detriment of people with disabilities. We rightly have a huge body of legislation in this country to protect the rights of people with disabilities. It is not for the Government—and it is not the approach we take in the rest of the UK—to list specific conditions that it may or not be decided constitute severe foetal impairment.

This is an individual decision for each woman to make following medical assessments, the clear provision of information and proper support for medical professionals and others. In this respect, the law that we are introducing in Northern Ireland reflects the law in the rest of GB. Addressing SFI was a specific requirement of the CEDAW report, which is why it is included in the regulations.