Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

We have received representations from the midlands engine, and from Midlands Connect in relation to transport, about both road and rail east-west connectivity. We are considering them carefully, and they will form part of the spending review.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

I spot the Leader of the House on the Treasury Bench, but I do not know whether he wants his old job back.

The Exchequer Secretary talks a good talk on fiscal steps to support the northern powerhouse, but the broader facts speak for themselves. Since 2015, for the first time in 50 years, the UK Government no longer provide regional investment aid in England, according to the Industrial Communities Alliance’s evidence to the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee inquiry. What is his explanation for that?

[Robert Jenrick]

We give many other funding streams to northern communities, including £3.3 billion through the local growth fund and £13 billion for wider transport schemes.

[Peter Dowd]

So that’s an unambiguous no. The north is home to 15 million people in five major city regions, 265 towns and 1,000 villages and smaller communities. It has 29 universities, the UK’s largest airport outside the south-east and eight major ports, one in my constituency. Does the Exchequer Secretary agree that changing those eight ports, as suggested by the Foreign Secretary and the former Foreign Secretary, into not economic hubs of excellence but potential revenue-draining, tax-avoiding, money-laundering free ports—more like free-for-all ports—is no substitute for a focused, well-resourced and sustainable economic strategy for the north?

[Robert Jenrick]

Perhaps unlike the hon. Gentleman, I am interested in any proposal that can drive economic growth in the north of England. Free ports are an interesting proposal, which we have discussed with a number of communities. We have urged them to come forward with well-thought-through business cases. We have yet to receive them from many places, but we have received one from Teesside and we will consider them carefully in future.

Tobacco Products (Description of Products) (Amendment) Order 2019

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Monday 17th June 2019 General Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for supporting this measure. As I said, it is a simple measure, which puts on the statute book the definition that is required under the Finance Act 2019.

The amount of revenue at stake is negligible—less than £5 million per year. That is partly because there is only one known product on the market at the moment. Of course, should this take off as a new form of smoking, there will more revenue at stake; at the moment, we think it will be only a small amount. Our primary motivation here is providing clarity to taxpayers, rather than raising significant amounts of money.

On the future revenue stream from tobacco, the hon. Gentleman is right to say that, should smoking continue to decline, which is a good thing, the revenue stream will start to decline. We monitor that closely, and the Exchequer always has new and novel ways of raising money to meet the shortfall in the future, should it have to.

In terms of snuff, I am looking to my officials—[Interruption.] That is disappointing. I was looking to my officials to see whether they knew the answer, but I will have to write to the hon. Gentleman.

[Peter Dowd]

Snuff is not a heated product—not, I suspect until it gets up your nose, but that is by the bye. I do not want any response, formally or informally, from the Minister on that.

[Robert Jenrick]

I am grateful for that. I commend the order to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

National Insurance Contributions (Termination Awards and Sporting Testimonials) Bill

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

3rd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 10th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Robert Jenrick)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the comments and questions posed by the hon. Members for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) and for Bootle (Peter Dowd). I shall not detain the House long, but I will try to respond to as many points as possible. I am surprised that the hon. Member for Bootle has raised those concerns and indicated that he intends to vote against this measure, given that he did not divide the House on Second Reading and did not divide the Committee on a single clause.

[Peter Dowd]

I indicated at the time that we would reserve our judgment and see whether the Government came up with sensible proposals. The fact of the matter is that, regrettably, they have yet again not come up with those suggestions, proposals, recommendations and explanations. That is why. Here we are giving the Government the benefit of the doubt, and we are being criticised for it.

[Robert Jenrick]

Let me respond to the amendments tabled by the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Aberdeen North. It is a bit like groundhog day, because we have been through these arguments before. I will first address new clauses 1 and 2, which seek to amend the legislation that deals with termination awards, and then new clause 5.

New clauses 1 and 2 seek to commit the Government to report to Parliament on the impact of the changes to termination awards legislation within one year of implementation. They both seek further information on the impact of this measure on individuals whose contracts have ended and on employers. New clause 1 also asks specifically about distributional analysis, while new clause 2 asks the Government to consider the impact on businesses using termination payments to fund a start-up—a matter that we also discussed in Committee.

First, the Government consider that producing such reports is unnecessary, because we have already considered these issues in detail as part of the policy development and extensive consultation process. As we have discussed on a number of occasions, this Bill has been known about for some time. It was published for the first time in 2015. It has been restated in Budgets. It has been consulted on. This is not a new measure; it is well known to individuals and stakeholders who might be affected and to the tax and professional community who will be involved in advising businesses. There is little more to be said on that.

National Insurance Contributions (Termination Awards and Sporting Testimonials) Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Tuesday 14th May 2019 Public Bill Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

Absolutely. The figures reported by the Office for National Statistics this morning are further evidence of the jobs miracle we have seen since we came to power in 2010. It is important to place these changes and the impact they will have on working people in the context of the fact that, as my hon. Friend said, most of us in this room have never known such a buoyant labour market in our lifetimes—and long may it continue.

On the particular point of the reports, the Government feel it is more appropriate to look at those issues in the round and to take a balanced decision based on all the relevant factors. Secondly, the Government have already consulted on this measure in detail. We have published both the draft policy proposals and the legislation for scrutiny. We explicitly considered the impact on employers and individuals as part of the policy and our development.

We decided on an approach that protected those losing their jobs by, for example, retaining the important £30,000 exemption that we have extensively discussed and not seeking to change the position with respect to employee national insurance contributions, but at the same time simplified and aligned the system, reducing the incentives for manipulating payments. We believe we have considered this issue carefully and reached a balanced way forward.

I will add at this point that the policy costing for this measure, as we have already heard in interventions from my hon. Friends, has been signed off and certified by the independent OBR, and the methodology for that assessment is described in the Budget policy costings document. That shows the Government’s commitment to transparency and sound public finances.

Finally, the Government have already committed to keeping this measure under review, as new information may become available. The publicly available tax information and impact note, TIIN, commits the Government to keeping the scheme under review through communication with taxpayer groups affected by the measure and through information collected from tax receipts.

As with all legislation, the Treasury is also required to carry out post-legislative scrutiny of Acts within three to five years of their implementation. As I outlined, I think in response to the question from the hon. Member for Oxford East this morning, the Treasury may well do that before that deadline; it would certainly be required to do so and to report to the Treasury Committee if it had not.

As part of the review process to meet those obligations, HMRC and HM Treasury will speak to stakeholders to gauge their views on how the policy is operating. There are well established lines of communication between HMRC and representative groups, as one would expect, that will provide the basis for a continuous review of the effect of this policy. I am sure that hon. Members will feed back to Ministers any concerns and thoughts regarding how the reforms are working in practice, and of course HM Treasury is always open to suggestions. I hope hon. Members will agree that those points make publishing a review on these matters unnecessary. However, it may also help if I respond specifically to the points raised about the impact of the new class 1A employers’ NICs liability.

I would like to make a number of important points in closing. First, no employee will receive a new tax charge as a result of the Bill. The Government have explicitly chosen not to charge employee NICs on the measure and to retain the £30,000 threshold.

Secondly, only about 20% of termination awards will be affected. As we heard this morning, the OBR expects that employers may react by lowering wages or accepting lower profits and has adjusted its forecast for salaries by 0.1% as a result. However, that is a negligible reduction and must be viewed in the context of record employment, record low levels of unemployment and record employment in all categories—disabled persons, women in the employment market, young people in the employment market and so on—a higher living wage, support to businesses through tax cuts such as corporation tax, and other important policy initiatives brought forward by this Government. Also, as the ONS pointed out this morning, wages are rising substantially above inflation.

Thirdly, as I noted in my letter to the Committee, and as I set out again in my answers to questions this morning, where employers face a new charge on termination awards, we expect this to be disproportionately on payments to higher-rate and additional-rate taxpayers, typically those who are in the top two or three income deciles.

Clause 1 will simplify the tax system, reduce the incentive to manipulate payment, and raise important revenue for our public services. As such, and with the reassurances that I hope that I have been able to give the Committee, I commend clauses 1 and 2.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

It is a delight to see you in the Chair, Sir Henry. I thank the people who gave evidence today to the Committee; it was very helpful. I had something like 50 questions to ask. I was unable to ask them all, but I will relieve Members by saying that I will not ask them all now—possibly 45, but not the 50 that I had planned to ask.

Contrary to what the Minister says, we do not, through new clause 1, want to “force” the Government to do this, that or the other; we do, however, want them to come to Parliament and accept parliamentary scrutiny. There have been no amendments to any of the Finance Bill Committees that I have sat on; I think it is four in total. In the mother of Parliaments, we were unable to scrutinise those Bills properly and appropriately—my colleagues will remember several of them—because the Government have tried, and continue to try, to close down any scrutiny. It is very important to get that on the record.

As for the implication that if we do not agree to the proposals, it will somehow have an impact on job creation—that old chestnut—as I said recently on the radio and in other media, the same was said about giving the minimum wage to miners in 1913, and to agricultural workers in 1924. It was said when people started to get holiday pay in 1938. People said that equal pay for women and members of ethnic minorities would cause the economy to crash, and the same things are being said about the minimum wage. It is the old claptrap—I should not say that, in case it is unparliamentary, but that is what it amounts to—about this impacting on jobs.

Yes, we have the highest number of jobs since 1975, or since records began, as the Government keep telling us, but the context is that this is the most precariously placed workforce in decades. Zero-hours contracts abound, and regional imbalances—[Interruption.] Government Members mutter, but facts are a stubborn thing; facts remain facts. [Interruption.] They are facts; the Minister mutters that they are not. The reality is that a huge number of people are on zero-hours contracts, and huge numbers of people are working two or three hours a week. That is classed as employment. I am sorry, but it is not “employment” to that person, who is not getting any money, or to their family, who perhaps have to send their children to school without breakfast or lunch. Let us get that into context.

The hon. Member for Dudley South effectively said that we will now tax redundancy payments above a certain level. Only the Tories could make a virtue of taxing the redundancy payments of people who have lost their job. The Minister mentioned that the £30,000 figure had been the same since 1998, and said that it was the most generous such amount in—I don’t know—the known world. We do not want to make simple comparisons with other countries, because other countries have far more generous reliefs in other areas, so making a direct comparison with other redundancy figures, out of the totality of employment reliefs, is not appropriate.

The hon. Member for Walsall North mentioned the affirmative procedure. If the Government want to reduce the £30,000 limit—as they no doubt will want to, given that that is far too generous for people who have been made redundant and have lost their job—we will be able to vote on that. Perhaps that would, at least, give us a proper opportunity to debate the issue on the Floor of the House, which we have not been able to do. I mentioned our inability to amend the law in the last four, or possibly even five, Finance Bills. That is unprecedented in parliamentary history.

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Dowd]

We support the new clause, although we will not press it to a vote.

Given that there are not many people in the room and this probably will not be listened to very much, I can say that, as an Everton supporter, I none the less congratulate Liverpool on their 4-0 win. Not many people will hear that. I will deny I said it and will have it struck from Hansard. I also congratulate Man City on their win. I wish them the best of luck. At least there is a tenuous link with sporting testimonials.

[Robert Jenrick]

As a Wolves supporter, I am slightly bitter at the moment.

To answer the point made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, without repeating comments already made today, I appreciate her legitimate arguments. We feel that the measures in the Bill have been sufficiently consulted on. The long-standing tradition that a new piece of legislation will be reviewed within three to five years will apply. The review’s outcome will be in the public domain. It will be sent to the Treasury Committee. Ordinarily, it would be published on its website, and the hon. Lady or any other interested Members would be able to view it there. It will not be a private document only for the consumption of members of the Committee. I hope that will reassure her that we intend carry out a review in due course and that will be available for those who take an interest in it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Tuesday 9th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

I can confirm that. The UK remains the European leader for foreign direct investment, venture capital investment and tech investment. Even in manufacturing, which is under a certain degree of strain, the UK remains the ninth largest manufacturing nation in the world.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

“Strain” is not the word. In the real world, production and manufacturing output remained 6.8% and 2.7% lower respectively in the three months to January 2019, compared with pre-downturn GDP in the first quarter of 2008. After nine years of policy failure, should the Chancellor and his team not stop throwing spanners in the manufacturing works and instead oil the machine?

[Robert Jenrick]

Not at all. Manufacturing exports are up 35% since 2010. We are investing in the manufacturing sector through our industrial strategy. We are creating a tax system that is pro-business. We are reducing corporate taxes to amongst the lowest in the developed world. The hon. Gentleman would do the opposite and reverse that. The very clear message that businesses give us, particularly international investors in this country, is that the threat of a hard left Labour Government dwarfs the risk of a Brexit outcome. We want to secure the future of the British economy in a resolutely pro-enterprise country.

[Peter Dowd]

What can I say? That old chestnut—and the Leader of the Opposition will be in No. 10 today as well. Anyway, I admire the Chancellor’s perseverance in trying to get the Prime Minister to grasp the concept of compromise—a challenging task, I have to say. Perhaps a less onerous task would be to sort out the problem with production. In the three months to January 2019, it fell by 1% compared with the same period last year, driven by a significant fall of 1.5% in manufacturing, which, of course, includes the beleaguered automotive sector. If the Government were a car, it would fail its MOT. The Chancellor has been putting manufacturing into reverse gear. Isn’t it time for a new car with a new driver?

[Robert Jenrick]

The British economy is remarkably robust in its present state. We are seeing continued economic growth, record levels of employment and record low levels of unemployment. Businesspeople, investors and entrepreneurs the length and breadth of the country know that the greatest threat to our prosperity is a hard left Labour Government.

Draft Financial Services Contracts (Transitional and Saving Provision) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Wednesday 13th February 2019 General Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the questions put by the hon. Members for Bootle, and for City of Chester.

I disagree with the hon. Member for City of Chester. Leaving without a deal is clearly not our preference—there are sectors of the economy, including financial services, for which that would be a very difficult situation indeed—but it is not responsible to take no deal off the table at this stage, and to diminish our leverage in the crucial final stages of the negotiations. In fact, it is not possible to take it off the table, because there is the matter of the primary legislation that is already in place. Until such time as the House of Commons passes a law to the contrary, we have to act on the basis that no deal is a potential scenario.

Any responsible Government would be taking the steps that we are today. The regulations have been welcomed by the industry, which has described them as the final piece in the puzzle, and an important piece of legislation that we need to pass to ensure that UK financial services institutions and consumers are protected.

By approving the regulations, we are making a fair, unilateral regime available to our friends and partners across the EEA—a regime that will give firms temporary access allow them to run off their businesses in an orderly manner. That is what people would expect us to do.

The hon. Member for Bootle asked why we were using secondary rather than primary legislation. We have had that debate on numerous occasions during this process. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act does not allow the Treasury to make major changes to policy or legal frameworks, and does not give the Government the power to make changes beyond what is needed to correct deficiencies that will arise solely as a result of exit. That is all we are attempting to do today.

The hon. Gentleman asked about scrutiny. As I said in my opening remarks, we published the instrument in draft form on 17 December, along with an explanatory memorandum that sets out how it will operate, maximising transparency to Parliament and the industry. We have had numerous meetings with stakeholders across the financial services sector; they welcome the instrument and believe it is absolutely essential. I am therefore disappointed to hear that any Member would choose to vote against it, because the consequences of doing so would be significant in the event of no deal.

The hon. Gentleman asked why there is a contractual run-off period, and whether that would mean that consumers would not be safeguarded—I think that was one of the implications. The period is precisely to ensure that consumers are protected. The example I gave was of a consumer with a long-duration insurance product that lasted for 10 or 15 years. We would want to ensure that the product could be used and the consumer could make a claim if necessary, and that the provider of that service—for example, an EEA insurance company —could not renege on that by virtue of it being illegal. The regulations protect consumers, and enable us to make a fair, unilateral offer to our partners elsewhere in the EEA.

Contracts and businesses will not be unregulated during that period. They will not be permitted to carry out new business in the UK. The FCA and the PRA will have additional powers over firms, including the power to move firms into the supervised run-off period, in which they would be subject to the full UK regulatory regime, and the power to cancel their exemption altogether. Consumers will not be exposed during that period.

The hon. Gentleman asked for further information on cancellation. The regulators’ powers in respect of a person under the temporary regime are the same as under part 4A of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, so there will be no change to the powers available to the regulator to take action.

On our ability to extend the duration of the regime, Lord Bates in the House of Lords made clear that to do that, we would submit a written ministerial statement. That followed the expression of similar concerns in the other place in the consideration of the EEA Passport Rights (Amendment, etc., and Transitional Provisions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018. That clarification has satisfied stakeholders. It is not our intention that extensions will happen in perpetuity; the powers are purely to give greater clarity and certainty to the industry that in extreme circumstances there is an ability to extend, and to ensure that there is no detriment to consumers or business.

[Peter Dowd]

On the point that the Minister just raised about exceptional circumstances, that is the problem with the totality of the legislation. The Government seem unable to set us on the track to ensuring that we or organisations will eventually have clarity. They seem to be kicking the can down the road all the time. They put things off. They say, “If there is a problem, we will look at it then.” It goes on and on. There is absolutely no clarity for organisations, and the Minister should take that into account.

[Robert Jenrick]

The legislation has precisely the opposite purpose; its purpose is to provide clarity and certainty to industry. Voting against the regulations will do precisely the opposite of what the hon. Gentleman purports to want to achieve. Of course, the way to provide the greatest certainty to consumers, users of financial services, and the 1.1 million people who work in the sector in all parts of the United Kingdom is to vote for the Prime Minister’s deal—or a deal—before exit day and avoid a no-deal Brexit.

[Peter Dowd]

The Minister says that organisations welcome the regulations, but at the end of the day, they welcome them because they are the only thing on the table. Would I welcome them, if I were them? I most probably would, because this instrument is the only document I have that gives me any certainty at all—but it is still not good enough.

[Robert Jenrick]

It is not the view of the industry that this document is not good enough. The industry thinks that this is the final piece in the puzzle; it provides them with the certainty that they require in the event of a no-deal Brexit. There will now be a temporary regime into which financial institutions can pass, should they wish to. If they do not want to do so, or if they do and then ultimately fail to gain the authorisation that they require, the measures before us provide a further safety net to ensure that consumers and those businesses are protected and safeguarded for a period of time as they run off their business in the UK.

With that, unless any other right hon. or hon. Members wish to comment, I commend these regulations to the Committee.

Question put.

Balanced Budget Rule

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Wednesday 23rd January 2019 Westminster Hall

[Robert Jenrick]

No, I do not accept that for one minute. It is exactly as a result of this Government’s fiscal responsibility in that period that the public finances have now improved, credibility has been restored in the market and business has continued to invest. For those reasons and others, we now have continued record levels of employment, record low levels of unemployment and an economy that remains remarkably resilient. Let us not forget that public spending is £200 billion higher today than it was in the last year of the last Labour Government.

We are not complacent about the debt or the deficit. The fiscal outlook may be brighter, but the need for fiscal discipline continues, as my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire made very clear. The debt is still more than 80% of GDP, which is equivalent to approximately £65,000 per household, and we want to reduce that figure, for a number of reasons. We are concerned to ensure that if there is a future economic shock, the economy is resilient, and we want to improve fiscal sustainability. In the most recent Budget, the Chancellor set aside £15 billion of headroom for economic shock, out of concern for any further uncertainty that might arise as a result of Brexit.

There is a broader point, however: servicing debt is costly. If our spending on debt interest were a Ministry, it would be the third largest, after health and education. Our spending merely on servicing our debt is equivalent to what we spend on the police and the armed forces. As my hon. Friend made clear, that has an opportunity cost, because that spending has no economic or social value and reduces our ability to spend on our priorities and keep personal and corporate taxes as competitive as possible. The debt burden of interest is merely being passed to future generations.

The foundations of the Government’s approach are our fiscal rules: first, to reduce the cyclically adjusted deficit to below 2% by 2020-21, and secondly to have debt fall as a percentage of GDP in the same year. Sticking to those rules will guide the UK towards a balanced budget by the middle of the next decade. The OBR’s economic and fiscal outlook, which was published in October and was quoted from earlier, shows that the Government are forecast to have met both our near-term fiscal targets in 2017-18, three years earlier than predicted. Sensibly, given uncertainties in the fiscal outlook, the Chancellor took the view that we should retain the £15 billion of headroom against the fiscal mandate in the target year and £73 billion against the target of getting debt to fall. The forecast also shows that borrowing will fall to 0.8% of GDP by 2023-24, its lowest level since 2001.

[Peter Dowd]

If the Chancellor and his predecessor have been so wonderful at economic management, why have they missed every single target that they have set over the past eight years?

[Robert Jenrick]

The hon. Gentleman rather makes the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) made. He cannot have it both ways. Either the hon. Gentleman supports debt falling—in which case he should support continued fiscal responsibility, which is one of the Government’s guiding missions—or he wishes to spend more and more. His speech argued that we should spend even more, getting us into further debt and making the situation more difficult for future generations.

[Peter Dowd]

rose—

[Robert Jenrick]

I will give way one last time, but then I must make progress.

[Peter Dowd]

First, I did not make the latter point. The Tories can make up their own policies on the hoof—but don’t make up ours. Secondly, the Minister still has not answered the question. It has nothing to do with the outcome; it is about why the Government, if they are so economically capable and confident, have missed all their targets.

[Peter Dowd]

No, he hasn’t.

[Robert Jenrick]

I have tried to answer. We are meeting our fiscal rules, as the OBR states—in fact, we are meeting them three years early. That has given us room in the Budget to invest at record levels, with £20.5 billion a year for the NHS, for example—its largest injection—and reserve headroom in the event of fiscal shock. However, the hon. Gentleman is arguing for £500 billion of additional public spending. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham said, that makes no sense whatever.

In the little time I have left, let me answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire about how we can create better architecture to ensure that we and future Governments can be more fiscally responsible. We have done so in a number of ways. Our greatest step was the creation of the OBR, an institution that is now maturing and respected and will be retained on a cross-party basis in the future. It has enabled commentators and Members to have greater confidence in the figures—of course, there may be more that could be done in that respect. This year, we will institute the first zero-based spending review, which will look at all Government spending. We have taken account of the parallel with Chile, which has adopted that model in that past.

On longer-term spending, we have created the National Infrastructure Commission, which was designed to ensure that the Government think about the long-term challenges and invest appropriately within a defined spending envelope, guiding investments in our infrastructure according to a clear economic strategy. We have also taken action to ensure that our public accounts are among the world’s most transparent—they have been certified as such by the International Monetary Fund, for example. Most recently, the Chancellor announced the retirement of the private finance initiative, so that we continue to ensure that when our accounts are scrutinised, they are as clear and transparent as possible and we are always seeking to derive the greatest value for money for the taxpayer.

We have also sought to distinguish clearly between day-to-day consumption—important though such investment is for the future of the economy, whether it is in the police, in education or in the health service—and the long-term economic infrastructure investments that will really drive the economy forward. Over this Parliament, we will make the greatest investment in such economic infrastructure—our roads, our railways, our digital infrastructure—by any Government since the 1970s.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire for his remarks. This is an extremely important and timely debate. He made his case in his usual eloquent way, as one of the great champions in this House of smaller Government, lower taxes and fiscal responsibility. If only there were more colleagues who followed his example.

Finance (No. 3) Bill (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

The Government have taken two measures, the first of which was in the last Budget. That created an electric charge point investment fund— £200 million of public investment—which is designed to spur an extra £200 million of private investment. A business such as the one my hon. Friend describes could be part of that. The measure could enable the business to partner with the public sector and gain the capital that it needs to develop, and will be able to take advantage of the allowance and invest early. There are now two opportunities for such a business to take advantage of tax reliefs and public investment in order to grow rapidly and enter the market.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

I do not deny the Minister’s point per se. Is there any implication that businesses that have chargers could be subject to a rating revaluation, which would put the cost of their business rate up? Perhaps the Minister could clarify that important point.

[Robert Jenrick]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point and I will reply—the powers that be will return to me in a moment.

The changes made by clause 33 will extend the current 100% first-year allowance for expenditure incurred on electric charge point equipment for a further four-year period until April 2023. That will encourage the increased use of electric vehicles by supporting the vital development and installation of charging infrastructure for such vehicles, to which drivers will look when deciding whether to buy them.

[Robert Jenrick]

Perhaps I could reply to the hon. Member for Bootle before taking a further intervention.

[Peter Dowd]

Providing inspiration arrives.

[Robert Jenrick]

Or not, as the case may be. We will have to write to the hon. Gentleman, I am afraid. He has outfoxed our officials.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Jenrick]

The hon. Lady speaks from her deep knowledge of this area. It is absolutely right that some costs have fallen, particularly since the fall in the oil price, which has driven significant efficiencies in the sector, but other costs are rising. New technologies are coming on board. Taking on a project that entails such uncertainty while being tied to a single estimate of decommissioning costs, without a wide range as we have allowed in the measure, would be a major disincentive for a buyer coming in to one of these projects.

Let me address the concern inherent in the amendments about disincentivising cost-reduction, or that the measure, in providing such a wide field, would make it unlikely for buyers to try to reduce the cost and therefore would gain higher tax relief as a result. I think the buyer will retain a strong incentive to minimise total costs, as they will be liable for meeting the remainder of the decommissioning costs. The amendment is therefore unnecessarily restrictive and would harm TTH.

Amendments 85, 86 and 87 and schedule 14 would change the TTH activation mechanism to restrict decommissioning tax relief on a field, so that it could not exceed the level of new capital investment made by a purchaser. Decommissioning costs generally occur at the end of a field’s life, when its reserves are exhausted and new capital investment will not result in further economic recovery of oil or gas reserves. For many purchasers it would therefore not be practical to make significant capital investment during the decommissioning process.

Furthermore, requiring the purchaser to match what can be very high decommissioning costs with an equal level of new capital investment could easily bankrupt many of the smaller operators that we want to take part in the industry. The best way to ensure that we get new investment into the industry, to protect jobs and create new ones, and to maximise economic recovery of our natural resources, is to have an effective TTH mechanism. That is exactly what we believe we have achieved, as a result of the deep consultation that we have conducted with industry, which I will explain in a moment. The amendments would make TTH completely unattractive and ineffective. I therefore urge the Committee to reject them.

In answer to the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, I will briefly summarise the steps that we have taken to consult with the industry since TTH was announced at Budget 2017. Even prior to Budget 2017, the topic had been discussed with stakeholders for some time. We have built on numerous discussions held between July and December 2016, by issuing at the time of the Budget a discussion paper on tax issues affecting late-life oil and gas assets. We received 28 detailed responses and then held an expert panel, working with the industry to design the measure. I myself held two meetings in Aberdeen this year with the Oil and Gas Authority and stakeholders. Draft legislation was published over the summer on L-day, for technical consultation with the industry. We received further feedback as a result and much of that has been incorporated into the final legislation. Although there are always ways to take the measure further, we believe we have reached a point where the industry is satisfied and welcomes the steps we have taken.

[Peter Dowd]

Trade unions have argued that more conditions need to be attached to TTH to bring it in line with OGA and maximising economic recovery objectives, and for broader commercial behaviours, which should include minimum compliance with UK employment law—workers being paid and employers paying tax and national insurance. Did that form any part of the discussions with the industry and stakeholders?

[Robert Jenrick]

I do not think we spoke specifically with trade unions but we did speak with a wide range of industry stakeholders. To return to TTH, its purpose is not to give an incentive to industry that it would not ordinarily have. The owner or operator of one of those fields would already be able to take advantage of those tax reliefs to set aside decommissioning costs, but they would be difficult to sell on to a new operator. This measure will make it much easier for new entrants to enter the market, for fields to continue or be developed further, and for jobs to be created that would not ordinarily be created. We believe that this is a win-win for all involved: for the Exchequer, which will make modest additional receipts as a result, for industry, and for all those employed in north-east Scotland—I see the hon. Member for Aberdeen North nodding. I believe this measure will be widely welcomed and well received by all stakeholders in the industry.

The best way to get new investment into our industry is, as I described, to protect jobs and maximise the economic recovery, and we believe that we have reached that point with this measure. The Government take their environmental responsibilities seriously, as we described when debating the previous clause. We have legally binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions under the Climate Change Act 2008 and the system of carbon budgets it sets out, as well as the Paris agreement that we ratified in November 2016. Nothing in this measure takes away from our efforts elsewhere, but we want the UK oil and gas industry to continue to thrive. It has been through a difficult period following a significant reduction in the price of oil, and that price has fallen once more since the Budget. That industry makes an important contribution to the UK economy, supports more than 280,000 jobs, and provides around half our primary energy needs. To date, it has paid around £330 billion in production taxes. By introducing these changes for late-life oil and gas assets, we hope to encourage new investment in the UK continental shelf, and I commend the clause to the House.

Finance (No. 3) Bill (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

No, I am happy to proceed.

[Peter Dowd]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed: 103, in clause 53, page 34, line 14, at end insert—

“(5) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must review the expected effects on public health of the changes made to the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979 by this section and lay a report of that review before the House of Commons within one year of the passing of this Act.”—(Kirsty Blackman.)

This amendment would require the Chancellor of the Exchequer to review the impact of the revised rates on cider and wine on public health.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Question negatived.

Clause 53 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 54 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 55

Rates

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Dowd]

I accept the point that you are making, Ms Dorries. I have moved the amendment and laid out our overall position on tobacco revenues, and on that basis I shall not take up the Committee’s time further.

[Robert Jenrick]

Clause 55 implements changes announced in the Budget concerning tobacco duty rates. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced that the Government will increase tobacco duty in line with the escalator. The clause therefore specifies that the duty charged on all tobacco products will rise by 2% above RPI inflation. In addition, duty on hand-rolling tobacco will rise by an additional 1% to bring it to a total of 3% above RPI inflation this year.

The clause specifies with respect to the minimum excise tax—the minimum amount of duty to be paid on a pack of cigarettes—that the specific duty component will rise in line with cigarette duty. It also sets the rate for the new category of tobacco product, tobacco for heating, at the same rate applicable to hand-rolling tobacco. The new tobacco duty rates will be treated as taking effect from 6 pm on the day they were announced, 29 October, with the exception of the rate for tobacco for heating, which will take effect on 1 July 2019.

We recognise the potential interactions between duty rates and the illicit market. The Government have to be careful not to raise rates too far and fast, as that might exacerbate the illicit market. We included an important measure at the time of the Budget: the creation of a UK-wide anti-illicit trade group, bringing in law enforcement and representatives from the devolved Assemblies, and building on the good work done by the Scottish Government. We hope that that will mean we can take forward and intensify our efforts to tackle the illicit trade.

Amendment 100 would place a statutory requirement on the Chancellor to review the revenue effects of changes to tobacco duty, as we have just heard from the hon. Member for Bootle. The Chancellor assesses the impacts of all potential changes in the Budget considerations every year. The tax information and impact note published alongside the Budget announcement sets out the Government’s assessment of the expected impacts. Detail on the revenue impacts is set out in the policy costings document, which is also published alongside the Budget. Both include the expected revenue impact to 2023-24.

In addition, HMRC publishes a quarterly bulletin covering all excise duty receipts. The information that the amendment calls for will already be in the public domain for Members to scrutinise. It is not an area that requires further reviews and information, as there is no shortage of information in the public domain.

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point that, with the use of cigarettes declining, this is an area where we would expect revenues to fall in the years ahead. That is, of course, something that we take into account as we review duty rates for each fiscal event, with our two objectives, which I hope hon. Members will support: the primary objective is to protect public health, but the secondary one is to raise revenue to support vital public services.

I hope that I have reassured the Committee, and I ask that amendment 100 be withdrawn.

[Peter Dowd]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 55 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Craig Whittaker.)

The Economy

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Thursday 22nd March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

Our priority is to ensure that younger people in the workplace gain the skills that they need in good and secure employment and then, in time, they will benefit from the living wage, which did not exist before this Government created it. We have increased the personal allowance; we have taken 4 million British people out of tax altogether; and we have reduced the tax of 31 million of our fellow citizens.

On the subject of fair taxation, which was raised, the top 1% are paying 27% of the income tax in this country. On the subject of enforcing tax and reducing avoidance and evasion, the tax gap in this country is at its smallest ever level. It is one of the smallest of any developed country in the world and it is certainly smaller than the previous Labour Government left it. The bottom 20% of earners—this is an important statistic—have seen real wages increase by 7% since 2015. We have high levels of employment and we are working hard to support the lowest paid in society.

Thirdly, we have addressed productivity by investing in skills to ensure that our workers and fellow citizens have the skills that they need for the jobs of the future. We have seen that in many of the measures that we have discussed today: in increasing vocational and technical education; in our apprenticeships; in the advent of T-levels, one of the greatest innovations in our secondary education system since the creation of the A-level; in increasing numeracy and digital skills in schools with maths teachers, with IT teachers and with coding at primary level; and in the creation of the national retraining partnership—a partnership between the Government, the private sector, the CBI and the TUC, which was launched last month by the Chancellor—to ensure that workers have the skills that they require as the world of work changes in the years to come.

For small businesses and family businesses, we have increased management training and skills training, so that the greatest innovation in our economy is diffused throughout the regions and to the smallest businesses, we are backing people such as Sir Charlie Mayfield with his Be the Business movement, and we are undertaking a review of the long tail of British businesses, which was announced by the Chancellor in the spring statement. All of that will help to ensure that productivity increases in all parts of the United Kingdom and in all parts of the economy. What are the early results of those efforts? We have 2 million more children in good or outstanding schools than in 2010.

Fourthly, addressing productivity also requires us to invest in our infrastructure. The level of infrastructure investment—both public and private—by the end of this Parliament will be greater than at any time since the 1970s.

[Peter Dowd]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for mentioning my constituency earlier. I would like to mention his if he does not mind. Roger Blaney, the leader of Newark and Sherwood District Council, was speaking in response to a report that ranked the district near the foot of the social mobility league table. He put Newark and Sherwood

“323rd out of 324 local authority areas based on factors such as education outcomes, employability and housing prospects.”

Does the Minister still think that he is doing a good job for his own area?

[Robert Jenrick]

I most certainly do. That report revealed decades of underinvestment and neglect by Labour councils in Nottinghamshire, which let down their old former coalfield communities—the communities that they have taken for granted for too long. We are changing that, and the policies of this Government have seen, in my constituency, 40% more young people in good or outstanding schools, and a new free school in Newark, which I have created and of which I am proud to be a governor. Those are the practical changes that will transform the lives of local people. In the midlands and the north, we do not take them for granted; we get things done for them.

We are making long-term investments in infrastructure —road, rail, broadband and mobile—in all parts of the United Kingdom. The Infrastructure and Projects Authority, which measures our spending in those areas, said that there will be more central Government investment in the north of England over the course of this Parliament than in London or the south-east. We have created a pipeline of £600 billion of investment in construction and other infrastructure. The challenge now is less about money and more about ensuring that we have the construction workers and skills that we need to deliver on those projects. We are backing the midlands engine, the northern powerhouse and the Oxford-Milton Keynes-Cambridge opportunity. We are creating new deals in Sheffield, hopefully in the borderlands between England and Scotland, in north Wales and in other parts of the United Kingdom, where we believe in allowing local people to have greater say over their own lives. The Mayors whose positions we created—including Andy Street and, in the Tees Valley, Ben Houchen—are already making a huge impact and putting their own areas on the map.

Fifthly, we are embracing new technology, not turning away from it. We want to ensure that the United Kingdom leads the world in the technological revolution, but we also want to ensure that that works for everyone as the world of work changes profoundly. The pace of change has never been faster, but it will never be so slow again. The tech entrepreneurs and investors I meet are not preoccupied by Brexit. Their eyes are fixed on the horizon and so are ours. This is true of companies in FinTech, life sciences, artificial intelligence, autonomous vehicles and electric cars, and green growth, all of which we are taking seriously in our industrial strategy and in other policies. At least 15 UK tech companies could float today for in excess of $1 billion—companies that did not exist five or 10 years ago, including Citymapper, Deliveroo and Farfetch. This country is on the cusp of something great and we do not want the Labour party to lose that.

[Peter Dowd]

Does the Minister agree with Councillor Blaney that his constituency is the “Cinderella of regional funding”? What is he doing about that?

[Robert Jenrick]

Well, we have been investing in all parts of the United Kingdom, including the east midlands. We created the midlands engine, which I just mentioned and which is designed to unleash the economic potential of the midlands. In the west midlands, we have seen the huge potential that Andy Street has now given to a city that has been run by the Labour party for too long.

What are we doing to invest in new technology? As my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) described, we are investing more in research and development than has been invested since the 1970s, when the statistics were first recorded, so we are probably investing more than has ever been invested in modern times. We have made the R&D tax credits more generous. We are investing in the enterprise investment scheme and the entrepreneurs’ relief that are so important to crowd in investment to the United Kingdom from all over the world. The Chancellor is today at the FinTech summit that the Treasury is hosting, with 600 investors from all over the world coming to the United Kingdom to see some of our most exciting business that are creating 60,000 new jobs in the FinTech sector alone.

What have we done to create a business environment? We have lowered capital gains tax and corporation tax, and committed to lowering it still further. Labour would reverse those changes. Our reductions in corporation tax have actually resulted in more tax revenue for the Treasury and more money for public services. That is prosperity over ideology.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Peter Dowd]

I thank my hon. Friend for his advice, which I will take.

In 2017, we are still feeling the effects and economic consequences of the actions of the banks. Every day we are told by the Government that there is no money to invest and that austerity must continue, yet the Government have gone out of their way to undermine any remuneration from the banks that caused this sorry state of affairs in the first place.

Once again, the Opposition’s ability to amend this Bill is hamstrung and limited by the Government’s continued use of arcane and outdated parliamentary procedure. In football parlance, not only have they moved the goalposts but they have put boards across the goalmouths so that the Opposition cannot score any goals—a recreant act, if ever there was one, from a pusillanimous Government frightened of their own shadow.

By tabling new clause 1, we seek, first, to require the Government to carry out a review of the bank levy, including its effectiveness in relation to its stated aims—Sir Roger, you will be glad that we are back on the bank levy. Secondly, we seek to establish the extent of the revenue effects of the cuts made in 2015. Thirdly, we seek to calculate how much would have been raised if the Government had stuck with Labour’s bankers bonus tax. Let us have the comparisons.

Such a report would shine a light on the Government’s malpractice in cutting frontline services while offering tax giveaways to the banks. It would require the Minister to reassure the House directly that certain banking practices are not simply in hibernation. “Once bitten, twice shy” is a fair assessment of most people’s views, including many in the sector itself. A by-product of the process would be to show that far more would have been raised under Labour’s bankroll tax.

We are also calling for a separate review of the changes introduced by clause 33 and schedule 9 and their overall impact on revenue and risky behaviour. That review would make the Treasury explain the rationale for further limiting the scope of the bank levy and forgoing billions of pounds while, at the same time, pushing for more cuts to departmental budgets and frontline services.

It is, of course, unsurprising and indicative of the Government that they have failed to keep track of the banks that regularly pay the levy and a full list of what they have paid. That is why, in the name of transparency—a very novel concept for the Government—we would ensure fiscal accountability. The Opposition have tabled an amendment that seeks to create a public register for the bank levy.

The Minister talks about commercial sensitivity. Well, that old chestnut is brought out time after time. When we supported the banks with billions upon billions of pounds, nobody talked about commercial sensitivity then. In this particular case, I am sure many in the banking sector would be happy to have such transparency. It is shocking that the Government consider this tax cut for the wealthy few to be a good use of nearly £5 billion.

Alongside demanding that the Government change course, we must also understand the impact of the lower levy rate introduced in 2011, as well as the revenue effects of lowering the levy in 2015. That, among other things, is what our amendment seeks to tease out.

[Robert Jenrick]

I am confused by the hon. Gentleman’s position on the bank levy. He says that he voted against it in 2011 because it was set at too low a threshold, but between 2011 and 2015 the then Chancellor raised the bank levy seven times and, on each occasion, the Labour party voted against it. Why did it do that?

[Peter Dowd]

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman goes back and reads Hansard when it is printed to see exactly what I said.

Once we can see the true costs of the Government’s policies, we can grasp the extent of the choices they have been making and how they have favoured a small, wealthy group over the many citizens of this country time and again. Let us look at the example of children’s services. Only a week before the Budget, the chief executive of Action for Children, Sir Tony Hawkhead, described the “devastating cost” of cuts to children’s services, which he said have been left on a “dangerous and unstable” footing. These prevention and protection services are vital to provide proper care for our nation’s children, and the banking levy could help with that, yet we have seen deep cuts of 55% of funding for local government and a gap of £2 billion in funding by 2020.

There is widespread talk and reports of local councils having to seek permission from the Government to raise council tax to cover the costs, in effect, of cuts to the bank levy—this money may have been available for children. So cuts to bankers and council tax up seems to be what we are being told today. As these services have been decimated over the past seven years, we have seen a doubling of serious child protection cases and twice the number of children put into care protection plans. Last year, 70,000 children were placed into care. The support for foster care, adoption and Sure Start children’s centres has all been reduced. Youth centres are closing and parenting classes are being axed. Short breaks for disabled children, provided by local councils to give their parents a little respite from full-time care, are being taken away and are under strain.

Taken together, those cuts mean that some of the most vulnerable children in our country are paying the price for seven years of failing economic strategy. When are the Government going to change their strategy? It is still shocking to see the Government put the needs of others ahead of those of our youngest citizens, who are picking up the bill for austerity

Taxes on Small Businesses

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Peter Dowd

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Westminster Hall

[Peter Dowd]

I am pleased that the Minister has brought that to my attention. I bring to his attention Labour’s tax enforcement programme, as well as our manifesto, “Funding Britain’s Future”, and our industrial strategy. I am sure that the Minister has read those avidly and will no doubt revisit them.

SMEs find it increasingly difficult to operate around the tricky and ever-changing tax law while HMRC has been directed to crack down hard on them. The likes of Martin McTague, policy director at the Federation of Small Businesses, recently accused HMRC of going for the soft underbelly by tackling SMEs over tax avoidance and evasion rather than showing the same energy in confronting larger companies, and arguably, by underfunding and not resourcing appropriately.

[Robert Jenrick]

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the point that I made in my remarks about why the Labour manifesto included an increase in corporation tax for small businesses? If it cares about small businesses rather than large ones, why increase business profits tax for them?

[Peter Dowd]

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman reads the totality of the document, about the whole environment in which small businesses would operate. It is not a question of one element, but the total environment. That is the point I am trying to get across. It is not one specific thing, such as tax for small or large businesses, but the complete environment in which businesses must operate that we must consider. The current environment is not the most conducive to business for SMEs, in my humble opinion. That is my view; Members may agree with it or not.

We are committed to putting small and medium-sized businesses at the heart of our economic policy. We value them.