Draft Strikes (Minimum Service Levels: Border Security) Regulations 2023

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Mary Glindon

Monday 27th November 2023 General Committees

[Robert Jenrick]

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman.

That is why we deployed members of the armed forces. We asked young men and women to give up their Christmas holidays, often on pay and conditions substantially less than those of the Border Force officers whose places they were filling, to keep this country safe. That is why this measure is so important. I will not compromise on that, and I think it raises questions of fitness to govern if Labour Members do not consider these things to be important to our constituents and our country.

There was an extraordinary suggestion that we should respond just by closing ports. In what world would it be good for the United Kingdom to declare that the Port of Dover or Felixstowe is closed, or that there will not be any security checks at a small Scottish port because they do not matter? Well, they do matter: they matter to business, to national security and to the protection of the general public. The Government believe it is absolutely critical that every port in this country, large or small, stays open every day of the year, and that is why we are taking this action.

I turn to some of the specific points that have been raised, starting with the question of smaller ports. We take this issue seriously, and staffing requirements will depend on the exact nature of the strike. We will assess this on a case-by-case basis, depending on the circumstances, and we will take decisions to ensure that we are compliant with our legal obligations. To give an example of how we might do that, Border Force officers invariably move between ports on a regular basis. When we managed the recent strikes, we asked Border Force officers who were willing to come into work to deploy to ports where they would not ordinarily work, and in many cases they were willing to do so, so I am confident that that issue can be managed appropriately and in line with our legal obligations.

With respect to the question about introducing the regulations without having a voluntary arrangement for minimum service levels, we first sought the support and engagement of the unions, as one would expect, but they declined to engage with us. It was only when they declined that we decided to proceed with the policy. With respect to the question about the scope of the arrangements under the regulations, I go back to my earlier remark: those wanting to limit their scope need to say which things do not matter. Which of these things do they not want to be open on any given day? Is it that they do not want counter-terrorism activities to be happening? Do they want very large queues at our ports? Do they want goods no longer to be checked at the Port of Dover? That is what one has to think through, and we took the view that each and every one of those things matters, which is why we need to have the level of minimum service that we have set out in the regulations. However, I will caveat that by saying that the test is that the system should be no less effective. Not all border services are in scope—just those identified in the regulations—and we have not set out exactly which services would be operating on any given day, precisely because it would be extremely naive to signpost to terrorists, smugglers and criminals which activities would be stood down on any given day. We do not do that, we have not done it on recent strike days, and we do not intend to do it with the passage of the regulations.

With respect to the question about the Passport Office, we are applying the regulations only to those services that are integral to national security, and I hope that everyone across the House supports us in that regard. We estimate that that is no more than a dozen individuals, so with all due respect, I think the hon. Member for Easington is getting ahead of himself on that. The sorts of functions we are talking about include identifying stolen passports and forged documents, and I would not want to be the Minister for Immigration on a day on which we were not able to identify either of those things, because they are integral to the security of our borders.

[Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

I declare that I am an associate member of the PCS union and a member of the all-party parliamentary group. I am saddened by the Minister’s assertion that the Opposition do not care about security. Border Force and the unions have stressed over and over again that they do not take strike action without careful consideration and heavy hearts, but it has been necessary. Does he think threatening to bring in other people to do the work and criticising people for striking, when it is the very last resort, is a way of engaging with the unions in future?

[Robert Jenrick]

I suspect I have a higher regard for people working in Border Force than some of those who contributed to the debate. It is precisely because what it does is critical to our security that I want to ensure that a minimum service level is maintained on every day of the week. I think Border Force is akin to a uniformed service. I do not think it is a doing a basic service stamping passports and letting people through our airports. It is protecting the public, which is why we need to ensure that we maintain the service every day of the week. I do not think the regulations will impact on recruitment and retention. In fact, we are enlarging all the relevant organisations, including the Passport Office, Border Force and allied organisations such as Immigration Enforcement and the Small Boats Operational Command. In most, if not all, of those cases, the jobs are oversubscribed, because thousands of our fellow citizens want to take part in this important work on behalf of the general public. With that—

Building Safety

Debate between Robert Jenrick and Mary Glindon

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick]

With respect, that is exactly what we have announced today.

[Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

Notwithstanding the consultation, will the Secretary of State apply the same logic about sprinklers to existing tall blocks as he does to new blocks?

[Robert Jenrick]

I think I have already answered that.