Mental Health (Discrimination) (No. 2) Bill

Robert Buckland Excerpts

Friday 14th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

It is an honour to take part in this debate on a Bill that, at a stroke, will make huge leaps forward in how we approach mental health in respect of people who serve in this House, on a jury or as a company director, and in how we address the role that people with mental health conditions play in our society.

The previous speaker, the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh), is absolutely right: there is no binary divide in our society between those who have mental health and those who do not—just as, in fact, there is no binary divide in terms of disability either. It is all a question of degree, and it is important that we, as legislators, send that message out from this place loud and clear both to society in general and in order to express our support for all the organisations in this field. Many of us work with organisations such as Mind, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the many disability organisations that battle every day to get that message across. There is no such thing as normal. We are all unique; we all bring our own qualities to this place, and to whatever walk of life we have chosen. Those qualities, however idiosyncratic they may be, should be celebrated, not hidden.

That is why I am delighted to be here to support this Bill introduced by my good friend, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell). I have known him for many years; he is a man of great integrity. I know that he introduces this Bill because he, like all of us here, genuinely believes that now is the time to make progress on these issues.

If someone breaks a leg, they get hospital treatment and support not only from the medical services, but from family and friends—there will be a lot of “get well” cards and sympathy and encouragement. When a mental health episode occurs, however, things are far too often rather different. Other people—including friends, sometimes—often have difficulty dealing with it. That is due to centuries of stigma about mental health conditions.

It is not so long ago that people who had poor eyesight were seen as lesser creatures with a disability. I see that a lot of us today are wearing glasses; that is entirely part of the human condition—it is part of who we are. A simple but important analogy can be drawn between that and the situation with regard to mental health.

[Mr Nuttall]

My hon. Friend must not allow the wearing of glasses to be the only evidence that someone is very short-sighted. I can assure all Members of the House that, were it not for contact lenses, I would be completely unable to find my way to the Chamber.

[Mr Buckland]

I must confess that I am one of a large number of people who are rather squeamish about the concept of contact lenses, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making a good point about invisible conditions, which is another important analogy. We need to understand and have a greater awareness of invisible disabilities such as autism, and you will know of my great interest in that subject, Mr Deputy Speaker.

A significant proportion of all our constituents will have at some time suffered from and reported a mental health condition. In Swindon, the proportion of the GP-registered population with mental health needs in 2010-11 was just over 13%. Some 0.7% of the population were described as having a mental health problem, and 12.4% were suffering from depression. More than one in eight registered patients in the borough of Swindon, which has a population of over 200,000 people, have advised their doctor about a mental health condition. That is not something we can put in a box in a corner and forget about; it is something all around us, visible or invisible, that we need to accept, embrace and understand.

My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central rightly pointed out that one significant anomaly in the law—the position with regard to school governors—has already been amended this year, and I am delighted that the Government were able to bring that discrimination to an end. That brings into ever more stark relief the outdated and archaic nature of the provisions that the Bill seeks to repeal.

[Dame Anne Begg]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, so long as we discriminate against MPs, jurors or company directors, it is much easier for employers to discriminate against someone with a history of mental illness, which flies in the face of the Government’s avowed intention of getting people who are presently being declared fit for work into work when actually the biggest barrier is not their history of mental illness, but the attitude of the employer who refuses to employ them?

[Mr Buckland]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that important point. She is entirely right. It is a question not just of removing legislative barriers, but of encouraging a change in culture. Owing to a lack of understanding, frankly, far too many businesses and organisations still display that outdated and unfortunate response to those with mental health conditions.

[Mr Charles Walker]

Good practice needs to be recognised, and I am pleased to report that next week Legal and General is hosting a major conference in the City about mental health and tackling stigma. I believe that the company should be congratulated for doing that, particularly in the City, where there is a sort of macho culture in which people deny any weakness in case their colleagues think the worse of them.

[Mr Buckland]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The equation of mental health problems with weakness is something we must destroy utterly. We all know about that culture in the City, and it exists elsewhere. Organisations such as Legal and General and Swindon’s Mindful Employer network, an excellent organisation that brings together companies large and small in my constituency to encourage and share best practice with regard to employees with stress or mental health and other related conditions, can demonstrate the way to go when it comes to dealing with these conditions.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I am greatly enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech. His point about the idea of mental illness being equated with weakness brings to mind a famous radio lecture given by Viscount Slim of Burma, who pointed out that even the most courageous warriors will eventually break down if they are not rested and supported by their commanding officers and, indeed, that courage is a little like a bank account: one can be overdrawn for a certain amount of time, but not indefinitely. Some of the bravest and most courageous people are just as liable to mental breakdown if they are not properly understood and supported as somebody who would never for a moment go into those hazardous situations.

[Mr Buckland]

My hon. Friend brings a great hero of mine to our attention: Field Marshal the Viscount Slim, leader of the forgotten army, a man who led an outstandingly courageous operation in the far east. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to bring that huge experience to bear in this debate, which allows me to make an important point. We must be very careful when we use words such as “vulnerable”, because many people I know who have mental health conditions—I am sure other Members of the House know such people—would not like to be described as vulnerable. Often they are very tough people indeed who have gone through the toughest of circumstances.

I make that point because a good-natured and well-intentioned approach that describes people with mental health conditions as vulnerable brings with it a danger that the vulnerability becomes the basis by which, rather than encouraging and enabling such people to engage fully in society and public life, we assume that they need to be looked after in a different way and separated from mainstream society. Such a view is only a short step away from the old thinking about institutionalisation—the thinking of previous generations, which did so much harm and damage to people with mental health conditions. Although it is undeniable that people with disabilities or mental health conditions can find themselves in vulnerable situations, that is very different from making glib assumptions about their vulnerability.

The Bill would be a straightforward and simple piece of legislation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) said, it would also reduce and repeal legislation—something that I, as a Conservative, am always happy to support. In three particular respects it deals with provisions that are not only discriminatory, but wholly superfluous. The provision relating to Members of Parliament, as has already been noted, is not only dangerous, with the additional vice of potentially driving hon. Members to deny mental health problems, but in the light of the provisions of the Mental Capacity Act 2005, which allows for a person lacking capacity to be detained without losing their seat, section 141 is utterly redundant. On the principle that redundant legislation is bad law, we as legislators should act swiftly to remove such a provision.

It has been reported today that people with stressful jobs in which the ability to control events is limited—I most definitely include being a Member of Parliament in that category—are at a 23% greater risk of having a heart attack. We really would be idiots in this place if we denied the possibility that the mental health of hon. Members is not invulnerable. In my opinion the 2005 Act caters well for cases in which, sadly, detention for mental health reasons is the only alternative available but, importantly, it does not allow the automatic vacation of a seat because of the fact of a mental health condition. That is the important distinction that we must draw between the mere fact of a condition and the question of capacity. The two things are very different.

As you probably know, Mr Deputy Speaker, I have had more than my fair share of experience of dealing with the great British jury, to quote the words of W. S. Gilbert, whether I have been sitting as a Crown court recorder or appearing as counsel in criminal cases. I say with all the experience that I can muster that the court system is perfectly capable of catering for and dealing with people with conditions—sometimes lifelong ones—that can be managed by the administration of medication.

When somebody with diabetes, or another type of physical condition managed by regular medication, comes to the court, the well adopted practice is for sittings and administrative arrangements to be adjusted so that the person’s needs can be accommodated, they can take their medication and can serve as a juror. In other words, no assumption is made that, just because a potential juror has a physical condition or disability, they cannot serve as a juror.

The assumption in the Juries Act 1974 about mental health is wholly wrong. The blanket ban serves not only to reinforce stigma, but devalues the contribution that people with mental health conditions make to society and can make as jurors. In my humble opinion, there is no more important public service for an individual than to serve on a jury in judgment over their fellow citizen. To drive underground necessary disclosure of some mental health conditions that could affect the capacity to serve is, in my view, what is happening now—inevitably, as result of the outdated provisions in the 1974 Act. That is why those provisions must go and why I particularly welcome the Bill.

[Mr Charles Walker]

May I take my hon. Friend back to his earlier comment that on occasions he felt a victim of events in this place? Today, with this excellent speech, as on so many other days, he is driving events and is to congratulated for it.

[Mr Buckland]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is a friend indeed.

I turn to the final provision, which relates to company directors. The proposed removal of the provisions in the schedules to the Companies (Model Articles) Regulations 2008 has the function of removing not only discriminatory provisions but unnecessary ones. Why is that? It is because the model articles themselves already contain provision for the termination of a director’s appointment if a registered GP is of the opinion that that person has become physically or mentally incapable as a director and may be so for more than three months.

The provisions are a complete waste of time. They need to be removed for the sake of simplicity. Frankly, this is another example of removing unnecessary red tape and burdens when it comes to the setting up and creation of a business. From a practical point of view, the removal is effective and necessary. Let me also deal briefly with the existing provisions on orders made by the Court of Protection. Those orders are based on a lack of mental capacity, not the mere fact of a mental health condition.

I have mentioned that difference before, and I will say it again—I will keep saying it until everybody understands. Having a mental health condition does not mean that someone cannot play their full part in our society. That is why I warmly welcome the Bill as a real step forward, on a day of honour for the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)]

This has been a thought-provoking debate and it is a genuine pleasure to respond to it. Like all other hon. Members who have spoken, I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell) on his success in the ballot and on then introducing this Bill on a subject that is much deserving of the support that it continues to enjoy in this House. I assure the House, as I think it already knows, that this Bill has the full backing of the Government. I appreciate the words spoken by the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) on behalf of Her Majesty’s Opposition. She was passionate and right to talk about the effect of ignorance, cruelty and fear, and I look forward, as, I think, do all hon. Members, to much common endeavour to overcome those concerns.

I am sure that the entire House will join me in paying tribute to Lord Stevenson of Coddenham, whose Mental Health (Discrimination) Bill in the other place provided the genesis for the Bill under discussion. Without his efforts, we might not be debating this important issue today. Although it is regrettable that the previous parliamentary Session did not allow enough time for Lord Stevenson’s Bill to progress, we are grateful to him and my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central for their continued pursuit of the opportunity for legislative change on mental health. I know that, when this Bill reaches the other place, Lord Stevenson will treat it with the same gusto with which he treated his own Bill. I assure all hon. Members present that that work will have the Government’s continued support.

I thank all hon. Members who have spoken today with refreshing openness, as was the case in June, about the impact that mental health issues have had on their lives and on those of our constituents. It is right that we have taken this opportunity to debate those important issues further. This morning’s debate continues the tradition of bravery and sympathy that was established in this House on 14 June. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), who is now doing excellent work on the Front Bench and who played a role in initiating that debate. It has been humbling to see politics set aside—in June and today—and hon. Members from both sides speaking in support of the measures.

I will take a moment to recap on some of the excellent contributions that have been made. We heard first of all from the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), who referred to her own recent experience of being absent from the House. We welcome her back with gusto. She is absolutely right that the tribulation that can result from any health problem contributes better to our ability to endeavour to represent constituents who may experience the same thing. However, she taught us much more—as she often does—with her experience of working in this place and of seeking election with her own disability. She reminds us all of the trust and belief that we solicit from people when we stand for Parliament, and she certainly teaches us about the fire and the feistiness with which we need to do that and canvass and persuade. She teaches us that, in many ways, the battle is still to come, despite the very good step that we are taking this morning.

My hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) and the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), who have been well feted today, spoke admirably again. My hon. Friend spoke of the sea change in attitudes since the June debate and gave a great insight into what can happen in a media studio once the lid has been taken off these difficult issues. He is right to say that our hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central has achieved something big today, for which we all congratulate him and wish him well.

The hon. Member for North Durham repeated the challenging question asked by one of his constituents, who said, “Why should this matter? Why should we talk about this today?” A cynic might ask whether this is just another exception for MPs, but the hon. Gentleman responded admirably to such views. He gave, with dry humour, an historical overview and said, with passion, that we should talk about it today and elsewhere.

My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) acknowledged work that the Government are doing and was right to highlight this week’s important announcement on suicide prevention. As always, we welcome her professional expertise.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) is, of course, in his place on a Friday. I do not think we will ever experience a Friday without his presence or his panache and tenacity in pursuing not only the state of the public purse, but the appropriateness of any private Member’s Bill. I am sure that my hon. Friends in the Whips Office have noted, as I have, that he has volunteered to sit on the Bill Committee. I do not imagine that that will be agreed to, but, on a serious note, I welcome my hon. Friend’s commitment to the work. Even if he was only just able to find his way to the Chamber, we welcome his contribution.

My hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh), who is very learned, made an erudite, thoughtful and challenging contribution. He posed questions, as I have often heard him do, that should make us all continue to consider what we do in this place and why. He drew on a deep experience of his own in a former professional capacity.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) drew out, with tenacity and drive, some of the distinctions that we make in our everyday lives if we do not consider things carefully. He mentioned physical ill health, which I have experienced, having broken a bone, and rightly said—this has been said many times today—that it is possible to recover from episodes of both physical and mental illness.

[Mr Buckland]

We should pay tribute to my hon. Friend for having soldiered on when she sustained that physical injury. By getting on with her job, she made the point that, although she had a reduced capacity, she was able to do it. That is the point. The mere fact that she was injured did not mean that she could not do it. She made the point about capacity by her own example.

[Miss Smith]

My hon. Friend is too kind, but he makes the point well, on behalf of others who have had to deal with far greater difficulties than a mere broken metatarsal, that it is possible to recover and make a vital contribution to civil society as represented by the three strands addressed by the Bill.

My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) mentioned an important historical example given by Viscount Slim. He spoke of courage, weakness and vulnerability and what it means to endeavour to sustain those important qualities. My hon. Friends the Members for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) and for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) followed that line and spoke on behalf of their many constituents who have been part of the armed forces. I reiterate their comments that the Government are absolutely committed to their armed forces covenant and to helping get the right support where it is needed for those members of society.