Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The Labour party will have to swap “Wallace and Gromit” and have “The Muppet Christmas Carol” instead. I have one suggestion—full of Christmas cheer. Everybody knows that the shadow Chancellor does a brilliant job playing Santa at the Christmas party every year—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] He does an excellent job. Why not give everyone an early Christmas present, make the arrangement permanent and give him the sack?

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

rose—[Interruption].

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The House should hear the voice of Bacon.

[Mr Bacon]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Does the Prime Minister agree with the increasing number of informed commentators who believe that the ring-fencing of the investment banking subsidiaries of commercial banks will not work properly, and that complete separation is required?

[The Prime Minister]

The Government have looked at this carefully. We commissioned the Vickers report, which came up with the idea of ring-fencing, which was right. The key is that we want to ensure that, if a bank fails, it can fail safely, without taxpayers having to stump up the money to sort it out. That would be a major advance, and something the whole country would support.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[John Stevenson]

I do not believe that the monarchy is part of our constitution where effective—[Hon. Members: “What?”] No, it is not involved in our effective day-to-day constitution, in terms of the laws that are passed, so when my hon. Friend talks about the monarchy as such, he is talking about a different concept.

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend explain to the House the difference between the day-to-day constitution and the bigger constitution that he is talking about?

[John Stevenson]

It is an accepted part of our constitution that the monarch does not actually veto any of the laws passed by Parliament.

As a Conservative, I believe that all those who make the law should be elected and that those who have the right to vote should also have the right to seek election, with the opportunity to make laws or govern.

Appointment of the Chair of the National Audit Office

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

I, too, rise to support the motion. Sir Andrew Likierman is a highly suitable candidate.

I must say that at first, I had doubts—not about Sir Andrew, but about the office of chairman of the National Audit Office and the suitability of having a board. I was concerned about maintaining the independence of the Comptroller and Auditor General and making sure that his independence was no way impinged on by any further statutory inhibitions of any kind. I am now satisfied, especially as Sir Andrew has served as the shadow chairman for the past 18 months to two years, that that will not happen and, moreover, that the arrangements between the National Audit Office and its chairman, and in relation to the statutory functions of the Comptroller and Auditor General, which must not be impeded, have been satisfactorily worked out.

Those functions include access, if required, to every filing cabinet. May I say to the Prime Minister that that includes, if required, access to Cabinet papers? That is not—because the Comptroller and Auditor General, as we all know, is statutorily prohibited from looking at policy questions—in order to question policy, but to see that the right judgments were arrived at in obtaining value for money. In the light of the recent discussions that have been held on this subject in relation to the Ministry of Defence, I am pleased that the system worked as it should and that, as in the past, the National Audit Office ultimately had access to Cabinet papers. This was not exceptional—the NAO has done it before—and the system worked as it should. That shows that the judgments that the National Audit Office reached, having had access to Cabinet papers, were the right ones. Because of that, and because of Andrew Likierman’s suitability, I am very happy to support the motion.

Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Thursday 2nd December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick), who made a fair and balanced speech. I agree with pretty much everything he said.

I want to make two brief points, the first of which is about time. I have had to cancel meetings with constituents to spend more time dealing with IPSA, and I do not think that that can be right. The IPSA system and website are so cumbersome that they take far too long to operate, which has a direct effect on the time available to look after constituents. That cannot have been Parliament’s intention. When IPSA gets things wrong, as it does, one then has to spend extra time explaining why it has got things wrong.

My hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie) said that this debate was not about personal inconveniences, and I agree with him—it is about much broader issues. I do not want to dwell on a personal inconvenience, but I wanted to raise one example because I think that it illustrates the nature of the problem. I recently discovered that IPSA has refused to pay my constituency office telephone bill. I have not met anyone who thinks that is right, but I resent having to spend time investigating it and explaining to IPSA that my constituency office telephone bill is an entirely legitimate cost. So far, I have been too busy to do that. I fear that when I eventually find time to do it, IPSA will tell me that my complaint is now outside some arbitrary time limit that it has set. It should not be necessary to waste time explaining how absurd that is, so I shall move on to my second point, which is about value for money.

Immediately after the debate on IPSA in Westminster Hall some months ago, I was approached in the corridor by a representative of a major card payments company. In conversation with him, I said, “Wouldn’t it be great if we could have a system whereby if we paid for something such as a toner cartridge for the office printer we knew within 24 hours or so it would be published on the internet so that everyone could see it?” He replied, “It wouldn't take 24 hours. We could do it almost instantly, within a few seconds.” Of course, that would be much cheaper than the current system. That would suit me fine and I think it would suit my constituents, who have a right to know how public money is used. I am in favour of complete transparency about where public money is spent. Indeed, I have spent my entire time in this House—the past nine years—trying to do my best on the Public Accounts Committee to defend the proper use of public money.

Instead of such a simple plan, we have this extraordinary situation where the arrangements are staggeringly expensive—they cost about £10,000 per MP to administrate—yet they offer satisfaction neither to members of the public, who quite rightly want to know how their money is spent, nor to MPs, who are trying to do a job.

This morning, IPSA has protested that it cannot publish receipts because it would be too expensive, but it should be expected to do more—much more—for less money. Publication of all the required information should happen constantly in real time or near real time. It would be cheaper than what IPSA does now and, technically, it would be easy enough to do.

I ran my own business 10 years ago. I sent electronic invoices to my clients and received payment from them electronically, and payment systems have moved on considerably since then. I do not believe that at present IPSA uses public money economically, effectively or efficiently, so I am pleased to support the motion, particularly because I know that the proposals made by my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor would save over £4 million per year of public money.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

I would make two points. First, an independent body is now looking at those receipts and making a judgment about whether they come within the purview of the rules, which is very different from what happened before. Secondly, there is a balance to be struck between the cost of publishing receipts—it would be very expensive—and total transparency. Since one of the themes of our debate has been the cost of IPSA as a whole, in offering a view, the House will, in the end, have to say to IPSA, “How do we wish to balance that?”

[Mr Bacon]

The right hon. Gentleman says there is a balance to be struck between cost and transparency, but in fact the reverse could be the case: total transparency through the right kind of card payment-based, web-based instant publishing system could be cheaper as well as more transparent.

Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th June 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

As with the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), the young man who came to explain the system to me could not answer any of my questions. Does the right hon. Lady agree that it was not his fault? He had been an administrative back-office person in the private office of the former Lord Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). Those who are responsible are those who put him into that job without giving him the answers.

[Ann Clwyd]

That is disgraceful. It puts unfair pressure on those people. We expect answers and if we do not get answers we obviously feel frustrated. I have not yet screamed or shouted at anyone, or banged the table, but I am getting to the point of saying that I would not have come back to Parliament if I had realised what a hassle the system would be for me and my staff. I would not have returned. That is a shocking thing to have to say, because throughout my time here I have enjoyed being a Member of Parliament; to spend my time now having to do this kind of thing irritates me beyond explanation.

I note that the Leader of the House is here. He will know that a few weeks ago in business questions I raised this matter in response to a question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North. My hon. Friend did not receive an answer to his questions; he was told that no one was responsible for answering on behalf of IPSA. I then discovered that the Deputy Prime Minister would have policy responsibility for IPSA; the Leader of the House told me that in reply to my question. If the Deputy Prime Minister is responsible for IPSA policy, he should be here listening to this debate. I am sorry he had to send his right hon. Friend to take the flak on his behalf. I would like to know what “policy” means. If answering questions on IPSA is not part of policy, what is?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

I strongly endorse the point made by the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan). If we can have a House of Commons travel card for our train or plane tickets, why can we not have it for anything else? The hon. Gentleman made a very good point.

People will not be able to take up the excellent suggestion of my right hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir John Stanley) about privileges until the Standards and Privileges Committee is established. There is one other thing that Members can do now. Many people have said that IPSA is not accountable, but that is wrong. It spends public money, which, therefore, makes it accountable. The IPSA chief executive is an accounting officer. The Comptroller and Auditor General is an officer of the House of Commons; he is the head of the National Audit Office. His address is 157 Buckingham Palace road, London SW1 W9SP. I encourage all Members of Parliament to write to him with their own experiences, because he is responsible. He is charged by Parliament, under the National Audit Act 1983, with ensuring the effective, efficient and economic use of public funds. In due course, he will need to take an interest in this question. It is a simple suggestion, but people should encourage the Comptroller and Auditor General to look at IPSA, because eventually, if there is enough pressure, he will have to look at it, and IPSA will then have to account for how it is spending public funds. It is that simple.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Straw]

No, I am afraid I cannot, as my time is very limited.

I just remind the House that we had to set up IPSA, because that was a requirement put on us by all parties in the Commons, in double-quick time.

[Mr Bacon]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Straw]

No, I am afraid that I need to make very quick progress.

[Mr Bacon]

You are not making any progress.

[Bob Russell]

You are defending the indefensible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

Let me make some progress. The fact that there are some 47 Members in Westminster Hall today—the largest number I have ever seen—indicates the concern that exists on both sides of the House. I am sure the IPSA board will pay attention to that, listen to this debate and take note.

To start off on a good foot—before I go on, probably, to disappoint everybody—it is worth saying for the benefit of those who did not see the coverage this morning that at its board meeting yesterday, IPSA made a number of changes that I think Members will welcome. IPSA has agreed to make one-to-one, hands-on help with the expenses system available to MPs who need it. IPSA has recognised the system’s complexity and will deal with it. As the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) mentioned, IPSA has also said that it will offer MPs one-on-one advice surgeries with IPSA officials who understand the scheme.

[Mr Bacon]

If it is a bad system, it will be like the Rural Payments Agency, which finally sent people to meet farmers face to face. What we want is a system that works. As a colleague said, a credit card system, which would be totally transparent, would be much simpler, cheaper, more efficient, more effective and more economical.

[Mr Harper]

If my hon. Friend will let me get to the end of my list, he may hear some positive news. To pick up that point, IPSA has also said that in its review of the scheme, it will consider a direct payment system. It is therefore incumbent on Members—[Interruption.] I am sure that IPSA will have listened to the advice from my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) about a credit card system. There are alternatives, but I think IPSA recognises that a direct payment system for office costs is a sensible venture, and it will consider that system during its review in the autumn.