Statutory Sick Pay and Protection for Workers

Debate between Rachel Reeves and Will Quince

Wednesday 18th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that case. I know from my postbag and email account that a number of businesses and individuals affected, who are concerned on health grounds or who have concerns about their employment or financial status, will contact their Member of Parliament. We are not always the first port of call—we are sometimes the last—but we are one where people expect to be able to get a response quickly, so I will look at what further guidance and advice we can give to Members of this House and through local authorities. That point about getting the message out to local authorities may well have been heard, because the relevant Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) , is sitting on the Treasury Bench behind me.

The hon. Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) raised the point about SSP and the rebate for employees, and whether that could be for more than two weeks. I understand the point she is making. The current Government advice is for people to self-isolate for seven days or for 14 days if in a household, so we feel that the two-week limit on rebates is a proportionate response. She also asked why SSP is not at the same rate as the living wage. The current system is designed to balance support for the individual with the costs to the employer. As the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work mentioned at the beginning of this debate, we have put £1 billion into the welfare system to provide additional financial security for people, and people on low income can get a top-up, where applicable, through UC.

Numerous hon. Members, including the hon. Members for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) and for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), raised a point about the private rented sector. Today at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister did say that we will be bringing forward legislation to protect private renters from eviction, and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government is considering whether we need to go further on that point.

The right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) both raised a point about the consultation on the lower earnings limit. Our immediate concern in dealing with the covid-19 outbreak is to ensure that a suitable financial safety net is in place, and the benefits system does provide that. We estimate that about 60% of people earning below the lower earnings limit are already in receipt of benefits. Our longer-term aim in that consultation was about preserving the link between the employer and the employee so that the individual receives appropriate support upon return to work. That is less relevant when most people are facing short periods away from work. I or the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work would be happy to meet those Members at a later point to discuss that further.

Numerous hon. Members asked why the focus so far has been on businesses and has not just been about individuals. It is so important that organisations are able to carry on trading, which is why the initial focus of Her Majesty’s Treasury has been on supporting business and keeping people in work where it is sensible and appropriate, based on Government guidance, to do so. Ultimately, that protects so many individuals in our society, but of course we are also looking at other measures for workers.

The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), the right hon. Member for East Ham and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts all made the point about raising the level of statutory sick pay. We continue to look at other support for workers to see what best mechanisms are available. Thankfully, a period of absence is likely to be short—we believe between seven and 14 days—but we know that some may need extra support, as Members across the Chamber have said. We know that low-paid workers are likely to be receiving additional support through universal credit, for example, and the advantage of universal credit is that it will go up if income falls to the equivalent SSP level.

[Rachel Reeves]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for addressing the points that hon. Members have made. It is true that people will not have to take that long off to self-isolate for their recovery, but overall, there is likely to be a suppression of demand in the economy for a longer period. The idea that people may be off work for only one or two weeks is fine if that is for health reasons, but if it is because their business is closed or there is just not work available, it is likely to be a lot longer. That is the point that many Members have been trying to make.

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. I reassure Members that the Government are doing all they can to ensure that everybody is supported to do the right thing. It is crucial that everyone follows the Government guidance on self-isolation—that has been clear throughout the debate—to protect themselves and others. The measures that we have announced and will put forward in the emergency Bill will support people to do so.

To come directly to the hon. Lady’s point, the Chancellor has announced that in the coming days the Government will go much further to support people’s financial security, working with trade unions—another point made by the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra)—and businesses to urgently develop new forms of employment support to help to protect people’s jobs and incomes through this period. I know that the hon. Lady would like to tempt me to go further but, as I think she will understand, that is somewhat above my pay grade. It is very important, however, that debates such as this take place, because it will have been heard by Her Majesty’s Treasury and will be taken in the spirit of working collaboratively on a cross-party basis. I certainly take those ideas on board, and if Members have further ideas about how we can better support some of the most vulnerable people in our society, my door is always open, and I would welcome them coming forward with those.

The right hon. Member for East Ham, the Chair of the Select Committee, raised the point about the habitual residence test. The test has operational procedures already in place to expedite confirmation of eligibility, but I will take this point away and give it further thought—I had not given it consideration before he raised it and I would be very happy to meet him to discuss it further.

We have a safety net that helps people facing hardship if they cannot work or are seeking work. Depending on their individual circumstances, employees can claim universal credit and/or new-style ESA or JSA. As the Prime Minister set out, the Government will keep everything under review. The package that was set out at the Budget and the new measures that were recently announced should give some reassurance that support will be provided to support jobs, income and businesses. As the Chancellor said, we will do “whatever it takes”.

We are in extraordinary times. The coronavirus pandemic is the most serious public health emergency that our nation has faced for a generation. Our policy is to protect lives and fight this virus with everything we have, and the Government have been clear in their approach: we will do whatever it takes to get the nation through these testing times. We will protect people, their jobs and businesses through this period to ensure that we keep as many people as safe as possible.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the matter of Statutory Sick Pay and protection available for all workers.