Oral Answers to Questions

Rachel Reeves Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

Our reforms of the alcohol duty system usher in a system that is simpler, fairer and better for public health. I am not entirely sure that the hon. Lady has got the details right on this. In fact, for Scotch whisky, this is an improvement because we have levelled the playing field for higher-strength drinks, which the Scotch Whisky Association had been calling for. With regard to the differential between domestic and foreign producers, because English sparkling wine is produced to a lower alcohol content naturally than foreign sparkling wine, it will actually, for the first time, enjoy a tax advantage under the new system. Perhaps most relevant immediately, we also froze all alcohol duties—a half-a-billion-pound tax cut for British people this year.

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

I want to take this opportunity to put on record my thanks to the Mother of the House, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), who, in the nearly 40 years that she has been in this place, has done more for the rights and representation of women than anyone else.

At the weekend it was briefed that the Government will set up a star chamber to crack down on waste—which, frankly, has been the hallmark of this Government. Indeed, the Government’s own accounts show that the incompetent way in which the business support schemes were structured meant that the Chancellor has allowed fraudsters to walk away with £6.5 billion of taxpayers’ money. That would be more than enough to cut the basic rate of income tax by a penny in the pound, worth £370 a year to basic rate taxpayers. So can the Chancellor explain why quick electronic checks such as cross-referencing with HMRC tax data were not conducted before money was handed out? Given this huge waste of taxpayers’ money, can the Chancellor confirm that he will be the first witness in front of his own star chamber?

[Rishi Sunak]

The hon. Lady would usually be on top of the numbers. She will understand that there is a difference between a one-off saving of £6 billon and an annual saving on a tax cut of £6 billion. Those two things are not like-for-like comparable. On the numbers she refers to, I am happy to tell her that in the most recent analysis from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy’s independent adviser, the estimate of fraud was reduced by a third because of the actions that the Government had taken, which is welcome news. But of course we remain committed to tackling fraud. That is why in the spring Budget we invested an extra £100 million in HMRC, with 1,200 new people to tackle fraud, and they are expected to recover over £2 billion over the next 12 months. With regard to bounce back loans, 55,000 loans worth up to £2 billion were recovered and stopped. We are absolutely committed to tackling fraud wherever we see it.

[Rachel Reeves]

The Chancellor might be relaxed about handing out £6.5 billion, or perhaps it is £4 billion, to companies that did not deserve it, but we on this side of the House are absolutely not. It is reported that a £4.7 million loan was given to a business founded just two days before it was handed the cash. It should not be beyond the wit of Government to get money to where it needs to go—to great British business—without allowing fraudsters to steal taxpayer funds. Leaving the till open and unattended for thieves to clear out would be a sackable offence for a shop worker, yet apparently it is acceptable for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Staggeringly, only one in 40 cases where fraud has been reported is actually being pursued. Let me ask the Chancellor this: when was he first alerted to this fraud, and how much does he think taxpayers will get back from the billions of pounds lost to fraudsters?

[Rishi Sunak]

As I have said, the new taxpayer protection taskforce at HMRC is expected to recover between £1 billion and £2 billion in the next 12 months, and has already made a good start on that. It is fair to reflect on where we were in spring 2020. I remember being at this Dispatch Box every other day. I remember Members from all parts of the House rightly holding the Government to account for getting money to businesses in a matter of hours and days, not weeks. In fact, I heard from the hon. Member for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds), the shadow Chancellor at the time:

“We need a full guarantee for…some loans…We are running out of time, so how will the Chancellor ensure that the bounce-back loans get to the businesses that need them?”—[Official Report, 27 April 2020; Vol. 675, c. 110.]

The then shadow Business Secretary, the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), said that the Government should:

“urgently look at 100% underwriting of loans and simplified lending criteria.”

Indeed, the hon. Lady herself wrote to me and said that

“the process for SMEs to apply for such loans appears cumbersome.”

I make no apology for making sure—