Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Bill (First sitting)

Rachael Maskell Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 7th December 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I entirely agree. Whether they are related to a disability, childcare responsibilities or semi-retirement, such provisions mean that we can bring talented people back into the workplace, which is good for the talented people and for the workplace. I therefore entirely agree with the hon. Lady’s point.

To address the point that the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn raised about whether an employee or potential employee can challenge the employer, it is about a dialogue. That is the key to this, and, as part of the legislation, there will be a dialogue between employer and employee around flexible working, so a discussion can happen at that point. The employer would have to set out a reason for refusal—there are eight reasons, such as customer service or productivity—so, at that point, there is not an appeal process. It is important to have a balance between the rights of employers and of employees, and I think that this strikes the right balance.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the Minister to his place and it is a pleasure to serve under you as Chair, Mr Davies. When Government pass legislation around employment law, they normally provide guidance to employers. Given that many people make decisions about the employment that they take up depending on the arrangements around flexibility, will the Minister ensure that there will be guidance about having that conversation at interview, and about making it the norm that discussions around work patterns are included in that conversation, to enable people to make informed choices about their future employment?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. Of course, as she will be aware, we engage heavily with ACAS on such provisions, and it does some excellent work in providing guidance for employers. This measure will be no different, in terms of advice that might be available to employers and employees.

We consider the measure to be a key part of the policy package, bringing an estimated 2.2 million additional people into the scope of the legislation and encouraging early conversations about flexibility. The Government will introduce the day one entitlement through secondary legislation, alongside the measures included in this Bill, so we do not believe there is any need to amend the Bill to achieve that change.

The Government already have the power to make flexible working a day one right via secondary legislation and intend to lay the statutory instrument to remove the 26-week qualifying period when parliamentary time allows, so that it takes effect at the same time as the measures in this Bill. On that basis, I would invite the hon. Member to withdraw her amendment.

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The Bill will impact millions of people in this country who face the dual challenge of balancing full or part-time work with other responsibilities. It is a basic step towards achieving flexible working for all. I close my remarks by thanking the Minister and his officials. I thank the Committee Clerks, who I forgot to mention earlier, as well as Bethan and others, for their helpful guidance in how to pass a Bill through Committee stage. I thank them for their help, advice and assistance. I also thank my parliamentary colleagues who have supported me in the process of the Bill.

[Rachael Maskell]

It is a pleasure to serve under you, Mr Davies, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East on getting her Bill to this point.

I was a national equalities official for the trade union MSF in 2003, when we had the initial debates about flexible working. I, too, remember some of the challenges when it came to making even small steps, such as giving the right to request—the right to ask a question, as we put it back in the day—for a limited number of people. From then until 2006, I was part of a coalition of trade unions who really fought to extend such provision to carers and others, and worked with organisations such as Legal and General, which piloted work on extending the rights of carers. It saw the business case and opportunity, which was vital in pushing legislation. Obviously, legislation moved forward in 2014 and today we are making further steps for stronger employment across our country. We must remember that there are 17.5 million parents and carers across our country—people at a time of life when they need flexibility to manage domestic issues and to be in reliable employment.

Something not mentioned so far in today’s debate is the impact on disabled people and the flexibilities they require in the workplace. Only 52.3% of disabled people are in employment, compared with 82% of the general population. Ensuring flexibility will enable more disabled people to work, whether their impairment is physical or mental. That has to be a really positive step forward in ensuring that their dignity is restored as well.

For some, the issue is flexibility to undertake education—or indeed, wellbeing or life. That is why removing the requirement to set out all the details of personal circumstances and to do the company’s work for it by justifying how to make the adjustments is so important.

The issue is ultimately about recruitment and retention, and it will be positive for the employer as well as for the worker. In York, we have high employment but women in particular are significantly underemployed. That has a real impact on productivity—an issue that the Government have wrestled with for the past 12 years. I trust that the Bill will increase productivity, as people have the ability to flex their hours or perhaps their location of work.

The pandemic has changed how we look at work and the workplace, and the opportunities of technology are moving that further forward. Some 36% of adults work at home at least one day a week, but 70% want that opportunity. This legislation will provide those workers with that opportunity, and I trust that more will become possible with the advance of technology. We must also remember that some people need to be in a physical location for work, although the hours they work can certainly be flexed. I remember working in the NHS: an employer could facilitate a patient’s rehabilitation by enabling them to flex their time and start earlier in the day with occupational or physiotherapy. More could be achieved with greater flexibility.

Earlier this week, I was really taken by a presentation given by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Emma Hardy) about the University of Hull’s remote working report, which was launched here. It found that women in particular and people in the 35 to 44 and the 45 to 54 age brackets benefited from flexible working, and as a result more people are remaining in Hull, which is helping its economy to grow. Ultimately, there are economic benefits from greater flexibility, but the University of Hull also drew our attention to the opportunities of new places of work such as co-working spaces. In York, we now have a location for co-working at the Guildhall. That flexibility not only benefits the employee, but co-working spaces enable a sharing of minds across different businesses, which can enhance a business. The creativity that can come from the flexibility provided by this legislation could be a real boost for our economic opportunities.

I trust that we will see the real benefit of the measures in the Bill, but we must also think of the climate benefit of people not necessarily travelling to work every day, which has to be a plus, and we must think of people’s wellbeing. We know that we have a wellbeing crisis across the country, with many people struggling after covid or for other reasons. To be able to work around individuals’ needs as well as business needs is ultimately a win-win for employer and employee that lifts morale and productivity.

Finally, we need to ensure that there are good systems of accountability and communications. For those outside the work environment or working hours, we must make sure that we use the tools available so that people are still completely included. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East has done the workers of our country and employers a favour in bringing forward this legislation.