UK Acorn Finance (Mortgages)

Debate between Priti Patel and Elfyn Llwyd

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Priti Patel)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner.

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd)—I hope my pronunciation is just about correct—on securing an extraordinary debate on what is, it is fair to say, a disturbing issue. He has been assiduous in his campaign to represent his constituents, and I pay tribute to him for the work he has done. I also thank him for sharing with me the background information on this very specific case, and I have read much of it.

Such debates are so important. By highlighting the facts and drawing them to the attention of the House, we can try to effect some change in the right place, notwithstanding the fact that the right hon. Gentleman gave a tremendous list of the organisations that have already been approached to investigate and address the case.

It is deeply disturbing to hear not only about what has happened and its overall impact on the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents, but that there are some 44 other cases, spanning about 20 other Members’ constituencies, and that so many other individuals have been targeted. I therefore pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for raising this distressing case and highlighting the range of issues associated with the individuals he named.

I hope the right hon. Gentleman and other Members will understand that it is not appropriate for me to comment specifically on the individual case, which is subject to a range of proceedings. However, I should make it clear that I intend to take away all the points he raised and to share them with the Home Office, as he suggested. That absolutely has to happen.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned a specific individual’s history, and their case is quite alarming. He touched on bankruptcies, IVAs and county court judgments—the list is endless. He also mentioned that that individual’s licence was renewed in 2012. I will pass the case to the regulator. The Financial Conduct Authority is fully independent, but it will be sent the details he highlighted. It is only right and proper that the FCA, with the full powers that it has, look at this case.

I will share with Treasury and Home Office officials the details the right hon. Gentleman has raised. I will ask them to consider what steps the Government can take to address every concern he has outlined. It is only right and proper that we do that. In the meantime, I hope he and other Members will find it helpful if I set out the approach the Government take on some of the issues he has brought to the attention of the House.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) mentioned payday loans, which have, thankfully, come under greater regulation today. The legislation the Government have introduced, along with changes that have been made over the past few years, are intended to bring in more robust consumer protections. That is right and proper, because we do not want vulnerable individuals to be targeted in a malicious way. We have heard about one such case this afternoon, but we have seen similar cases with the payday loan industry, and it is right that the right protections are there.

That is why the Government established a strong, independent regulator—the Financial Conduct Authority—dedicated to ensuring that financial services firms treat their customers fairly. Fairness and transparency are absolutely key. We do not want to hear of cases such as this ever again. This is about protecting consumers. However, the protections provided by the FCA do not generally extend to lending to businesses in the same way as they do to consumers, as the right hon. Gentleman highlighted.

[Mr Llwyd]

I must say I am encouraged by the Minister’s response, because I believe she will diligently pass on the information about this case, and I am grateful for that. However, on commercial lending being different from domestic lending, there is every reason to leave farms in the domestic area, because if something goes wrong, people do not just lose a house, which is bad enough—they lose everything. The people in this case wanted to absolve themselves from ordinary, proper, decent responsibilities towards borrowers.

[Priti Patel]

I fully understand the impact on the individuals. We should be clear that people have lost their livelihood; this is about losing not just bricks and mortar and a roof, but an entire livelihood.

--- Later in debate ---

[Priti Patel]

I am sure that the Government can look into that, because small businesses in particular suffer in such circumstances. Small businesses that are closely intertwined with family business become subject to different conditions from those affecting larger ones, and the implications are different for them if they reach the devastating time when they go into insolvency and get an individual voluntary arrangement. The process is traumatising, which takes us back to the point made by the right hon. Gentleman: it is a question of an individual’s livelihood, as well as a business.

[Mr Llwyd]

The Minister is, may I respectfully say, very responsive to what has been said. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun made the point that farms are a special case. We have already mentioned that they are often asset-rich but cash-poor; so they are there for the picking. Given that, to my knowledge, there are at least 44 different cases—perhaps 45, or perhaps even more—with roughly the same MO, surely there must now be a redefinition. Otherwise, the same thing will happen again. The people responsible are sharks who will continue to absolve themselves from regulation and play fast and loose with innocent people, with the disastrous results I have described.

[Priti Patel]

I think I have made it clear that the practices we have heard about this afternoon are wrong; we have heard about their devastating impact. Clearly, the case is distressing and complex, and we will look into every issue the right hon. Gentleman has raised. I will write to him personally once we have done so, and follow things up with him, to see how we can provide support and assistance in pursuing the matter. There is potential to examine definitions as well. I understand the circumstances in question, and the impact and implications of what has happened.

I hope I have been able to reassure the right hon. Gentleman that we are committed to putting in place the appropriate protections. We have really only touched on some of the areas in which the Government are working to protect consumers. We have heard a lot in the news today about payday loans—one such area. Today the right hon. Gentleman has brought the attention of the House to a very particular case. He has shown tremendous dedication to his constituents in supporting the affected families. He mentioned that there are potentially 44 other cases, and I would encourage the other Members who have such cases to engage in the issue as well. It is through such a collective evidence base that we will be able to effect change, and through due diligence and due process that we will get the justice needed by the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents.

Stalking

Debate between Priti Patel and Elfyn Llwyd

Thursday 21st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

I, too, commend the opportunity to speak in this debate, and congratulate those who secured it. This is an immensely important issue, and those of us in the House this afternoon will agree that more often than not, we do not spend enough time focusing on many of the challenges associated with the horrific issue of stalking, the impact it has on victims, and the processes that victims endure on their journey through the criminal justice system. I pay tribute, as all speakers have, to the work of Harry Fletcher and Laura Richards of Paladin national stalking advocacy service, and that of many others.

I would like to consider the experience of the victim. As co-chair of the all-party group on victims and victims of crime, I have been exposed to all sorts of horrible stories relating to stalking and other crimes, which have shone a spotlight on the process that individuals must go through, in addition to the personal suffering, trauma and emotional distress. It will not surprise the Minister to hear me say that I have long believed that victims’ voices should be at the centre of the criminal justice system, and I pay tribute to the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) for supporting the work of the all-party group.

It is clear from everything we have heard today that the voices of stalking victims are not represented effectively in the criminal justice system. The issue is not just about going to court, but the entire process: engagement with the police, how cases are treated, the thoroughness of investigations and whether complaints are taken seriously. It is fair to say that the process is ad hoc. There is not enough consistency and victims are being let down. It is excellent that new stalking laws are in place, but it is clear to all of us that much more needs to be done to assist victims properly.

To focus on the level of victims’ dissatisfaction with the criminal justice system process and with the professionals in it, I shall refer to the briefing from Paladin. Laura Richards produced a study that revealed the deep dissatisfaction felt by victims of stalking and the secondary victimisation that occurs—a very important point—when reliving the trauma of horrific experiences. We hear time and again about victims’ lack of confidence in the long judicial process, which does not acknowledge their emotional distress. Stalking is life-changing for victims, and the injustice has numerous psychological and physical aspects that affect their ability to engage and function socially. Irrespective of whether there has been a physical assault, there is psychological and emotional trauma.

Offenders are treated in a totally different way from victims. We need balance and fairness, and we must focus on fairness for the victims. I think the point has already been made this afternoon that victims tend not to report to the police after one or two incidents, but after the hundredth incident. There are many experts on this subject. We know that perpetrators are serial offenders, that they are persistent and malicious, and that they inflict as much psychological damage as possible and, in the worst cases, physical damage and the ultimate harm. The offending is relentless, but the system—the police interventions, the criminal justice system, the whole process—does not know how to address these issues. Much of it is down to how an officer responds on the scene or interacts with victims in the first instance. The situation is dreadful and something has to change.

Paladin is very good at providing victims’ anecdotes and comments. As ever, it is the victims’ stories that will make us sit up and listen and understand the extent of the trauma.

[Mr Llwyd]

The hon. Lady is a real fighter for victims and has done a lot of work in this area, and I respect her for that.

We would not have got this far without the evidence of witnesses who had suffered at the hands of perpetrators. I am talking not only about the victims, but sadly about families who have suffered bereavement because victims have been offended against several times and ultimately murdered. Without their bravery and emotional guts in giving evidence, we could not have got this far, so I am very interested in the hon. Lady’s remarks.