Scrap Metal Dealers Bill

Debate between Philip Davies and Matthew Offord

Friday 13th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

May I begin by apologising to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway), to other hon. Members and indeed to you, Mr Speaker, for the fact that a long-standing engagement in Yorkshire this afternoon, which was in place before I knew the dates for private Members’ Bills—all hon. Members know my interest in those—means that I will have to depart relatively hastily? I apologise to those who will speak later, because that is not a discourtesy I would normally do people. I assure everyone that I will read the record of the contributions that come later in the debate with great interest, but I wanted to apologise in advance. No discourtesy is meant to anybody by my leaving early.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his success in the ballot and on raising a subject that, as the hon. Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) made clear, is without doubt a major problem in this country that affects an awful lot of people. We can all agree that there is a problem, although we may not necessarily agree on the most appropriate solution. The advantage of the fact that I have to depart early is that I will be prevented from going on at as much length as I might otherwise have done, which I am sure will cause great pleasure to all involved. I just wanted to take the opportunity to set out some of my concerns about the Bill, notwithstanding the fact that we all agree about the problem. I very much hope that some of my concerns may be taken into account in Committee and, if not then, on Report, as we all want to see an approach that will be effective in tackling the problem.

There clearly is a major problem that we need to tackle. Metal theft has an unquantifiable cost to society. Let us consider, for example, the danger to people in hospitals if there is a loss of power because of the theft of some key metal, as my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South made clear in his opening remarks; the disconnection of telephone services, which means that people can be cut off from the emergency services; and the theft of such pivotal things as the dry riser valves used to put out fires. Of course we are also talking about the sentimental value of numerous world war statues that have been remorselessly ripped down where they have stood for decades.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

I join in the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway) on introducing the Bill. My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) has rightly identified some of the problems caused by that metal theft, but there is a further problem. Many churches in my constituency have had lead stripped from their roofs, and the Day’s and Atkinson’s Almshouse Charity has had lead stolen from its roofs on four occasions. On only one of those occasions was the theft “successful”, as on the three other occasions all the thieves did was cause damage, which then gives a cost to the almshouses. Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem is not only metal theft itself, but the difficulties caused by damage to properties from unsuccessful thefts?

[Philip Davies]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A considerable cost is incurred by many organisations and by society where local communities have been left without various services and where organisations that do fantastic work in those communities are compromised in the amount they can do for them because of the cost of the theft. The Association of British Insurers has claimed that this is costing £1 million a week in insurance claims and that 300 tonnes of metal is stolen every week, which is the equivalent of 300 cars. The ABI has also said that UK metal thefts have doubled in the past five years, to about 1,000 reported incidents a week.

Metal thefts are also a problem in my constituency. In April, there was a spate of thefts of brass door handles. Inspector Tatham of the Shipley neighbourhood policing team told my local paper:

“We have had a number of reports of brass theft from homes near the A650 in Shipley so far this month and are investigating the matter. The thieves appear to be targeting older properties with brass door handles”.

In addition, 28 iron cellar grates dating back to Victorian times were stolen last year from the world heritage site at Saltaire in my constituency. Metal theft also often takes place in very dangerous locations; my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South made the point that at least 10 people died in the past year while attempting to steal metal on railway lines. So many costs, both financial and human, are involved in metal theft, which is why I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing this matter to the House.

Let me deal with the current position under the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964. Special regulations have applied to scrap metal dealers since at least the late 1800s in order to help tackle the theft of metal. The 1964 Act places specific controls on scrap metal dealers to discourage the trade in stolen metal; these are in addition to the general requirements under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The controls under the 1964 Act include the fact that dealers have to register with the local authority and local authorities have to maintain a list of dealers. Dealers are required to keep a variety of records, including details of the types of metal received, of the processing of that metal and of the names of those disposing of metal at their site. A failure to meet the requirements of the 1964 Act may lead to a fine of up to £1,000.

The Government have also set up the metal theft taskforce. On 29 November last year the Chancellor announced £5 million of Treasury funding to establish a multi-agency national metal theft taskforce, to be led by the British Transport police. The Home Office has said that the taskforce will

“develop intelligence, coordinate activity and target and disrupt criminal networks—both the thieves and also the criminal market, including rogue elements of the scrap metal industry.”

Last June, we also had the waste review, which was set up to consider available penalties and sentencing guidelines for scrap metal theft and there is certainly scope for increasing the penalties for and sentencing of people involved in these crimes. The Select Committee on Transport produced a report in January that made a number of recommendations for reform, including

“introducing a new offence of aggravated trespass on the railways to increase the penalties associated with cable theft.”

As my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South said, we also have the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, and last minute amendments were introduced to the Bill to make it illegal for scrap metal dealers to accept cash for transactions. I was very nervous about that. In principle, it seemed to me to be perhaps a step too far, but now we have a new Bill proposed seemingly only five minutes after the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act was passed. My understanding is that the new measures will not commence until this autumn, so we seem already to be discussing a new law to replace one that has not yet even come into force. I wonder about the sense in this House introducing new legislation when the previous legislation has not even come into play.

The Bill repeals the 1964 Act and replaces it with legislation that empowers local authorities with a more robust and, I am sure my hon. Friend would say, more enforceable licence regime for all those who deal and collect scrap metal. The key features are: any individual or business who carries out business as a scrap metal dealer must complete an enhanced application process to get a licence; local authorities can refuse unsuitable applicants and have the power to revoke licences; all sellers of metal must provide verifiable ID at the point of sale, which is recorded and retained by the dealer; the cashless offence will apply to all scrap metal dealers without exception, including those who conduct house-to-house collections, and although there are a few concerns about how to protect people selling scrap metal at their house and to ensure that they get proper payment for their goods, I am sure that we can discuss that later; the police will have the power by court order to close unlicensed premises; a single national and publicly available register of all scrap metal dealers will be published; and the definition of a scrap metal dealer will include motor salvage operators, bringing that licensing scheme within one new scrap metal licensing regime. In a nutshell, the Bill seems to be suggesting an awful lot of new regulations and new offences. We need to determine not the intention behind them or how well meaning they are, but how effective they will be in tackling a problem that we all agree must be tackled.

It seems to me that a real problem has been identified with the Bill.