Scotland and North-east England Post-2014

Debate between Phil Wilson and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. This issue is of rising importance for the north-east of England. In six months’ time, the Scottish people will decide whether they want to remain part of Britain. Although it is right that that decision should be taken by them, it is not right to think that it will not affect the rest of Britain as well, especially the north-east of England.

Scotland and the north-east of England share an economic and industrial history, one based on shipbuilding, coal mining and steel works, for example. It is also fair to say that the Conservative party in both areas has been marginalised. That is a common identity that the north-east of England and Scotland share, and that economic history is important to the north-east of England even today. At Durham Tees Valley airport, some 35,000 passengers a year travel from my constituency to Aberdeen for the gas and oil industry, which shows how close Scotland is industrially and economically to the north-east of England.

Thousands of Scots and English cross the border between England and Scotland every day, without let or hindrance, to do a day’s work, but I believe that the Scottish National party has a twin-track approach to the English. On one hand, Alex Salmond has described the north-east as

“our closest friends in economic and social terms”,

and others have said that

“a stronger Scotland could act as a powerful advocate on issues of mutual concern to the north of England and Scotland”

and that there is

“a shared sense of values”.

That is great, but if all that is true, why does Scotland need independence to prove it further?

To the SNP’s internal Scottish audience, the English are those from whom the SNP wants independence, but to the north-east of England, according to Alex Salmond, we are Scotland’s closest friends. Call me old-fashioned, but I would not close the door on my closest friends by asking for independence from the rest of the UK.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

To follow the reasoning of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, is he saying that the Swiss are not friends with the Austrians or the people of Liechtenstein just because they do not share a Prime Minister? Surely, given that 250,000 people cross the Swiss border daily to work, that is an example of how people can be friendly without sharing a Prime Minister. It is not David Cameron who makes us friends.

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[Phil Wilson]

The hon. Gentleman is correct. Little by little, hon. Members are dismantling the whole argument for independence.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Phil Wilson]

Go on, then.

[Mr MacNeil]

Croatia joined the EU in July 2013. When did Croatia join the euro?

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

You’d be obliged to join the euro.

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[Phil Wilson]

I will just make this very important point, because I will now boast about the north-east of England, as it has a lot to offer.

The north-east is the only region in the country with a positive balance of trade in the export market, exporting £14 billion-worth of goods every year; its manufacturing industry is worth £7.5 billion; we have a strong and successful advanced engineering sector, leading the way in low-carbon technology and sustainable energy solutions; we have world-class research and engineering capabilities in wind, wave, tidal and solar power; we are home to successful knowledge-based economies, with 40,000 skilled individuals employed in the supply chain and more than 65,000 people working in the oil and gas sector; and more than 70% of the oil and gas platforms operating in the North sea are built in the north-east of England. On top of all that, a third of the north-east is designated as an area of outstanding natural beauty or is part of a national park. Why does the SNP want to put an international border between itself and an area as fantastic as the north-east?

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Phil Wilson]

No. I have given way twice to the hon. Gentleman, I want to make progress and I am sure that he will make some kind of speech later on.

I believe in co-operation between Scotland and the north-east of England, but building barriers will generate costs. Internal studies have proven that. When Czechoslovakia split into two states in 1993, the currency union between the two lasted 33 days and trade between the two fell significantly. I do not want to see that happen in our case.

International evidence also shows that flows of trade, labour and capital are much larger between two regions of the same country than between two similar regions in different countries. The best example is the trade between US and Canada. According to studies, Canadian provinces trade around 20 times more with each other than with nearby US states of a similar size, and the international border between the US and Canada reduces trade by 44%. If anyone believes in a strong Scotland and wants to see a prosperous north-east, why would they want to put barriers between the two, which would not be welcome and are not needed? Such a move cannot be good for Scots, English people or Britain.

I do not understand what is wrong with being part of the third largest economy in Europe and the sixth largest economy in the world. Why does the SNP want to be independent of that kind of success story?

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[Phil Wilson]

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We can have 300 years of history, as we have between Scotland and England, and still keep separate identities. We have an identity in the north-east of England, which in some ways is similar to the Scottish identity; we even call our children “bairns”. From my perspective, the identity is there and it is a great thing, so why do we have to create independence and an international border between the two countries? To say that we need to do that to secure our identity is not true.

Currently, 70% of Scotland’s trade is with the rest of the UK, including the north-east of England, and 70% of Scotland’s imports come from the rest of the UK. If the SNP wants independence, why does it want to keep the pound? If it wants to keep the pound, why not stay as part of Britain? It would save—

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Phil Wilson]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will make a speech later. He has already intervened on me twice, and I am sure that he will let me intervene when he speaks.

[Mr MacNeil]

Absolutely.

[Phil Wilson]

However, I suppose that if it all goes wrong, the rest of the UK, including the population of the north-east of England, can pick up the tab.

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[Mr MacNeil]

I will give way in a minute. All that will happen is that we will stop sharing a Prime Minister. It is not the need to have David Cameron as a Prime Minister that keeps the pair of us co-operating. Without David Cameron, I will still like the hon. Member for Sedgefield as much as I do.

[Phil Wilson]

Can the hon. Gentleman just answer this simple question? When it loses the referendum, what will be the point of the SNP?

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman asks a fantastic question, which gives me the opportunity to outline the point of the SNP, which is to put the Scottish people first, rather than power struggles in London, which, unfortunately, is the point of the London parties. It is all about who is in government in London, and that is not for the good of the people of Sighthill, Springburn, Castlemilk, Fort William, Inverness, Sutherland, Lochaber, Skye or Lewis. That is an awful tragedy. It should also be in our interest in Scotland to ensure that the good people of the north-east of England are benefiting as much as those in the regions of Scotland. I look forward to the day I witness people from the north-east of England finding chances of employment in Scotland, rather than having to go far afield to the south-east of England.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Phil Wilson and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Thursday 18th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be patient. He is usually a patient man, and I am sure he can display some patience now.

The chief executive of the UK Airport Operators Association, Darren Caplan, recently said:

“Our eye-wateringly high levels of APD already mean we pay the highest passenger tax on flying in the world—and this is not disputed by anyone in Government.”

The truth is that APD rates are having a devastating effect on the UK, and especially on Scotland. Let me pass on the views of some key people in Scotland. Jim O’Sullivan, managing director of Edinburgh airport, said on the BBC news on 6 December 2011:

“APD is already costing Scotland passengers and having an impact on tourism revenues. We know from discussions with our airline partners that it is a major factor in their decision to connect further routes to Scotland. We would urge the Westminster Government to see Scotland as it does Northern Ireland and understand the need to both reduce and devolve this unfair and damaging tax.”

Amanda McMillan, managing director of Glasgow airport, said:

“On the question of devolution of APD, Glasgow Airport has always been supportive of this proposal given the Scottish Government’s more progressive approach to aviation and its greater appreciation of the role the industry plays in supporting the growth of the Scottish economy.”

Scottish Government Transport Minister, Keith Brown, said:

“We need to be able to deal with the competitive and connectivity disadvantages that Scotland faces and if APD were devolved now we could provide the means to incentivise airlines to provide new direct international connections to Scotland, benefiting our aviation industry and our passengers and supporting the growth of the Scottish economy. The UK Government needs to listen to the many voices in Scotland who clearly want to see full devolution of the policy on APD.”

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

Is it not true that APD was devolved to Northern Ireland because of the flights that would have left Belfast airport and gone instead to Dublin? The specific APD problem for Northern Ireland is that there is an international border between Northern Ireland and Eire.

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman is making my case. Airports are joined by air, not by land or sea. I am sure Prestwick is about as far from Belfast airport as Dublin and Shannon are, so if this is good enough for Belfast and Northern Ireland, it is good enough for Scottish airports.

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[Mr MacNeil]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has investigated the level of APD on flights from London airports to Inverness. Doubtless, he will be flying to the happy band that is the Labour conference this weekend. [Interruption.] As my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) says, he will no doubt do so with enthusiasm.

Not only does APD receive a lot of criticism in Scotland and the UK; it has attracted international derision. Two days ago, at a conference in Trinidad and Tobago, it was not only criticised by Caribbean countries as discriminating against the region, but was described as

“a clear market distortion and barrier”

to tourism worldwide by a senior UN tourism official, Carlos Vogeler, the UN World Tourism Organisation’s regional director for the Americas. He added that APD

“can actually produce a net damage to the economy, particularly in those destinations which are so dependent on air travel, such as the Caribbean”.

Surely, on a social union basis, we should treat other Commonwealth countries, such as the beautiful Bahamas, on a fairer basis. At £332 for a family of four flying economy, its air tax is higher than the £268 in tax when flying to Hawaii.

I will give four reasons why APD should be devolved to Scotland. First, APD is making Scottish airports uncompetitive in their efforts to attract new direct international routes. It is needlessly restricting Scotland’s ability to realise the economic and business benefits that direct air connections bring.

Secondly, APD is designed for the circumstances in the south-east of England, not the rest of the UK. It is, at best, a demand-management tool for Heathrow—a stretched airport that will have no further runways until one is built in a panic in a few years’ time, as Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary predicts. Heathrow needs demand to be limited because it is at capacity and the Chancellor therefore has a coincidental fiscal cash cow. Scottish airports have the capacity for growth and this tax blocks it. Independent control over APD through devolved powers would give Scotland the ability to meet its own needs rather than Heathrow’s. My view of demand management is supported by the chief executive of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, Liz Cameron, who said:

“Current rates of APD seem more suited to controlling capacity constraints at Heathrow than they do with the needs of regional airports, and devolution of this tax would afford the Scottish Government the opportunity to create an air transport package for Scotland designed to improve our direct international connectivity.”

Thirdly, a Scottish aviation tax regime would incentivise the introduction of new direct international services, which is important for business connectivity and in-bound tourism. We could do that by reducing the rate of duty, or indeed exempting it, in the early years of a new service—the most challenging financial period—until a route is established.

Fourthly, the Treasury said that it is devolving “aspects” of APD in Northern Ireland, making great play of the “unique” commercial challenges it faces—that was perhaps mentioned earlier by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute. Scotland’s aviation sector also has specific and long-running competitive disadvantages that need to be addressed, and only the devolution of APD will do that. It is unacceptable that the UK Government are still not prepared to commit to the devolution of APD to Scotland, and I warn that such intransigence angers people at first, but when they calm and look rationally at the situation, they see the need for independence, which will be voted for a year next autumn.

According to a report published in October 2012 by York Aviation,

“by 2016 Scotland’s airports will be handling around 2.1 million passengers per annum fewer than they might have been if the APD changes since 2007 had not been implemented.”

It concludes:

“Constraining the growth of Scotland’s airports via APD can ultimately only have a negative impact from this perspective. APD makes it harder for airports to attract new routes or improved levels of service. Over time this will impact on Scotland’s attractiveness as a place to invest and its competitiveness in international markets. This in turn will negatively impact on Scotland’s international economy, including key sectors such as banking and finance, oil and gas, creative industries, technology businesses and advanced manufacturing”.

By establishing the highest passenger tax on flying in the world, the UK Government have finally managed to become the best in the world at something: unfair taxation. They are blocking growth with a gatekeeper tax.

The SNP Government are building a better Scotland. Scottish GDP grew by 0.5% during the fourth quarter of 2012—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson), who is from north-east England, might laugh, but I am sure a successful Scotland on his border would benefit north-east England as well. Would he rather have an independent successful Norway on his border or a Scotland that at the moment is in hock to whatever decisions are made by the Tories at Westminster? “Better Together with the Tories” is the Labour mantra.

[Phil Wilson]

If air passenger duty is devolved to Scotland that will impact on the airports at Newcastle and Durham Tees Valley. To go further and say that independence will help north-east England is ridiculous.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Phil Wilson and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

Perhaps I can expand the hon. Gentleman’s thinking. If we were to grow from four non-EU routes to 10 or 15, or to the 24 that Denmark has, we might see a growth in revenue. This is about raising revenue, not the precise level of taxation. We would be looking to raise revenue in Scotland and grow our economy, which is the plan for independence—indeed, it is why we want independence.

If APD is increased, Scotland will be put at a further disadvantage in attracting not only international passengers, but international business. As I said earlier, the Government have already conceded that point in devolving APD to Northern Ireland.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is being a bit disingenuous as far as Northern Ireland is concerned. The reason APD was devolved to Northern Ireland was because the airport in Northern Ireland was in serious danger of losing continental flights. Also, people were travelling to the south of the island, to Eire, to travel. The decision was made for economic reasons, to maintain the airport in Northern Ireland. It was nothing to do with the principle of devolution.

[Mr MacNeil]

It is not unusual to see Labour once again abandoning principle in its arguments. Surely we should be looking to allow Scotland to compete with other countries in the world. I hope that the hon. Gentleman would reflect on that.

[Mr MacNeil]

As I have pointed out, our proposal would benefit the south-east of England as well as Scotland. Surely the hon. Gentleman can see that, given what Conservatives say about taxation.

[Phil Wilson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr MacNeil]

I am sorry, but given the time I will take no further interventions.

Three airports support the devolution of air passenger duty, as do the chambers of commerce. They want it to be independently controlled in Scotland. They will be frustrated by what the House of Commons in London will probably do this evening, when I press amendment 61 to a vote. Frustration is a negative, but in my view this will have a positive outcome. Members who cannot yet understand the rising support for Scottish independence can surely see that those who are frustrated about APD this evening will begin to see a better way of dealing with the allied intransigence from London, on this and other matters, large and small. That will be one of the many reasons why people will vote for Scottish independence in 2014—to move the Scottish economy and Scottish connectivity forward.

I only hope that I have aided Members in understanding that this is not an SNP call: we are only a vehicle for the community of Scotland, along with the three airports and the chambers of commerce, in improving industry and creating better chances for families. The amendments in my name and those of my hon. Friends therefore seek to stop the increase in APD and to continue the pattern of devolving things to the Scottish Parliament, which is a more sensible locus for controlling air passenger duty.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I shall keep my remarks brief in order to give other Members an opportunity to speak. I have listened to the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) and, as I said in an intervention, it is important that we should have an opportunity to look at this matter in the round. Given that a recent review of air passenger duty resulted in no changes being made, I hope that the Minister will take this opportunity to consider taking a further look.