Cryptoassets: Regulation

Debate between Peter Grant and Lisa Cameron

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Westminster Hall

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

Thank you, Ms Rees, on behalf of all of us for saving this morning’s debate. It would have been a great pity if all the work that some hon. Members had put into their speeches had gone to waste. I thank my good and hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) for leading the debate in such a well-informed way. From conversations I have had with him, I know that although he definitely sees the huge potential benefits of cryptocurrency, he is also all too well aware of the potential pitfalls.

My hon. Friend gave us a helpful history of cryptocurrency and, importantly, reminded us that it has a particular culture that some of us might be interested in. We have to recognise that there may be certain attitudes to risk in that culture; I think he used the phrase “have fun staying poor”. If people involved in those games—and they are games for too many people—are happy to stay poor or run the risk of being poor, that is all very well. However, many people are sucked in without understanding the risk that they might suffer significant financial losses.

My hon. Friend repeatedly referred to the crypto bubble, which is an accurate description. The one thing all bubbles have in common is that they burst; we have to ensure that regulations are brought in quickly enough to stop it being a bubble before it bursts. He also pointed to flaws in the way the Financial Conduct Authority operates, on which I agree with him wholeheartedly. He referred to the collapse of Terra, whose total value went from something like $45 billion to nil in approximately 72 hours. That is how quickly things can go either well or very badly in the world of crypto.

The hon. Member for Rother Valley (Alexander Stafford) made an interesting speech. He was correct in describing Britain as the beating heart of financial services, or words to that effect; financial services are a massive part of the economy of London and the whole United Kingdom. However, I would caution him that we must recognise the fact that, although some people are in denial, Britain—London in particular—is gaining a reputation as one of the best places in the world to commit financial services fraud. If we continue to deny that and think of it as a problem that will go away, the entire future of London as a financial services centre of excellence could be in doubt.

Towards the end of his speech, the hon. Member for Rother Valley made a strange comment in response to the reminders of my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire about the huge energy input required for crypto to operate. The hon. Gentleman said that there is no point going for a low-carbon future if that undermines our economic growth. I gently point out to him that there is no future that is not low carbon. If we do not achieve a low-carbon future, we have no future whatsoever.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who I hope I can refer to as a friend, admitted to being one of the 85% who do not own cryptocurrency. It is nice to see that he is still very much in the majority with regard to some things in Northern Ireland, although he might find that that becomes a minority at some time—who knows! We could have an interesting philosophical discussion over his wee story about the young man who made so much money on crypto, increasing £1,000 to £40,000. That is slightly more modest than others who have made gains on crypto. Where did that £39,000 come from? The world did not become £39,000 richer. The amount of money in the world did not increase by that amount during that time, so somebody somewhere was £39,000 worse off, or a lot of people were a few pounds worse off. Every time somebody makes money on a speculative investment, somebody somewhere else loses it. We have to be prepared to face up to that.

I hope the Government will take the same approach I do: clearly, cryptoassets and currencies are here to stay. We cannot uninvent them. The nature of the thing is that even if we wanted to, it would be practically impossible to legislate to keep them out of the United Kingdom all together. People we are responsible for will continue to get involved in crypto. They will invest in it, play the game and speculate on it; whatever terminology we use, they are going to put their money into crypto. We have a responsibility to ensure that when they do, they are not taking risks they do not understand or running the risk of losing money they did not realise they were liable to lose. We certainly do not want to see people losing money they cannot afford to lose.

The challenge is to maximise the very obvious potential benefits while, at the same time, minimising the risks to individuals, businesses and potentially—let’s not kid ourselves—to entire economies. This thing will get big enough that if it goes wrong, it could bring down entire economies. If it goes well, clearly it would have massive benefits for us all.

Consumer protection must be at the heart of the Government’s regulatory approach. I find the implication that consumer protection has been deprioritised in the Financial Services and Markets Bill quite concerning; it will not be one of the things to which the regulators will be instructed to give high priority. I urge the Government to ignore the siren voices of some on their own Benches who call for a completely unregulated free-for-all, which would be the way to absolute disaster for the many. There would undoubtedly be untold riches for the few, but it would be a highly irresponsible approach.

[Dr Cameron]

I thank my hon. Friend so much for giving way and for the important points he is making. I wholeheartedly agree that consumer protection must be at the forefront of the work that is taken forward. Does he agree that it is important that as many people who are interested in this sector as possible get in touch with the crypto and digital assets all-party parliamentary group, which is currently engaged in an inquiry into the sector, in order to consider regulation, recommendations and consumer protection, as well as the opportunities for growth?

[Peter Grant]

I am quite happy to take that unashamed plug for the APPG. Given that it has been mentioned and will be recorded in Hansard, I have no doubt that those who are interested in its work will take up my hon. Friend’s offer.

Crypto has all the characteristics of all the great scams in history; indeed, it has most of them on a scale that very few of those other scams had. It has the possibility to become and to facilitate the biggest scam in human history, if we let it. We need to co-operate with other jurisdictions to regulate in such a way that means that the sector continues to grow and deliver benefits, but does not expose, as I have said, either individuals or potentially whole economies to unacceptable risks.

Although I welcome the Government’s steps on regulation, which I hope will be only the first steps on a much longer journey, I am concerned that what has been offered to date has been a patchy and piecemeal approach to regulation, compared to the far more comprehensive proposals in, for example, the EU’s draft regulation. I would not expect the Government to admit it, but I worry that this is another example of settling for second best just to prove that we are different from the European Union.

We should always remind ourselves that even technological advances that end up having massive benefits for humanity can have their downside. I know a lot of people, including a lot of Members of Parliament, who are only alive today because of radiology and radiotherapy, and that would not have happened without the genius and greatness of Marie Curie, who is one of the greatest human beings ever to have lived. Marie Curie was killed by her own discovery. Indeed, almost all the people who were the first to receive the benefits of the “miracle” radium pills that followed on from her discovery died a horrible death from cancer.

The message is: let us not turn our backs on new technologies or be scared of innovation, but seize the opportunities that such technologies offer. But just as developments in scientific and medical technology can carry risks for humanity as well as huge benefits, so can advances in financial technologies. The technological advances that we are seeing just now are happening at a pace that we could not have imagined even four or five years ago. That means that regulation must be flexible and able to adapt very quickly to identify where the potential risks are and to close them down.

I would like to say that we have a Financial Conduct Authority that I am happy to trust with taking that message on board, but in my heart of hearts, as I have said both here and in the main Chamber often enough, the Financial Conduct Authority as it stands is not fit for purpose. It needs to be given a significantly stronger remit and significantly greater resources. There is no doubt that the FCA is the correct place for regulation to reside, but I ask the Minister not simply to talk about what is in the Financial Services and Markets Bill just now, but to give us an indication of how quickly the gaps in regulation that will still exist after the Bill has been passed will be filled. It is not only people who are enthusiastic about cryptocurrency who are watching this debate to see when regulation is going to become adequate; there are also people watching this debate who are looking for an opportunity to make vast sums of money at the expense of our constituents, if we allow them to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Peter Grant and Lisa Cameron

Thursday 21st January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

1. What steps the Commission plans to take to ensure public and parliamentary scrutiny of the restoration and renewal of the Palace of Westminster after a decision on the options for that project has been made.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

2. What steps the Commission plans to take to ensure public and parliamentary scrutiny of the restoration and renewal of the Palace of Westminster after a decision on the options for that project has been made.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington)]

I anticipate that both Houses will have an opportunity to debate the matter once the Joint Committee on the Palace of Westminster has reported. The question of future scrutiny will be aired in those debates and the House of Commons Commission will listen carefully to the views expressed before making any decisions.