Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (England)

Debate between Penny Mordaunt and Jim Fitzpatrick

Monday 15th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Penny Mordaunt)]

I can see that it will be up to me to recalibrate the debate —both the issues, as the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) has been telling only half the story, and the tone. The Opposition have come to the House in anger to ask for the revocation of a pension scheme that improves considerably on their 2006 scheme, through a debate that they nearly did not call for—they did so only when there was no possibility of its being held before the regulations became law. Hon. Members and firefighters will draw their own conclusions about why that was the case.

The Opposition have proposed no alternative, let alone said how they would pay for it. They have not responded to the consultations, including the latest one on fitness. Protections will be introduced for firefighters, including those in the 2006 scheme who already work until 60.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady says that the Opposition have not provided an alternative, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) has pointed out that alternatives have been found in Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh, so alternatives do exist.

[Penny Mordaunt]

No, the House should be clear that no alternative scheme is available. If the regulations were revoked, a new scheme would have to be designed and consulted on and then introduced in April, and there is very little time to do that. [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Penny Mordaunt and Jim Fitzpatrick

Monday 15th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

19. What estimate he has made of the number of firefighters who will retire early on medical grounds with a reduced pension after the introduction of the new firefighters pension scheme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Penny Mordaunt)]

Any firefighter who retires early on medical grounds, owing to being permanently unable to undertake their role, will be entitled to take their pension without a reduction. Our final scheme provides a better pension for those firefighters than the alternative scheme for which the Fire Brigades Union is lobbying.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The Minister said on 10 November that no firefighter who fails to meet the standard would lose their job, yet Dr Tony Williams, who was appointed by the Government to assess the regulations, has said that two thirds of firefighters will not make the cut. How can she reconcile those two opposing views and cost firefighters over 20% of their pension?

[Penny Mordaunt]

That is not what Dr Williams said. The 2006 scheme, which was introduced under the previous Labour Government, has had firefighters working until 60. They have been working under the pension scheme with no protections if they fail a fitness test and are unable to continue their operational role through no fault of their own. We are introducing those protections. There is a written ministerial statement today and a statutory instrument will appear tomorrow, and it will guarantee, placing on a statutory footing—obviously firefighters are entitled to ill health retirement—that if there is not an underlying medical condition and they cannot pass the fitness test, either they will receive an alternative role or the authority will have to initiate a pension.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Penny Mordaunt and Jim Fitzpatrick

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Penny Mordaunt)]

Since taking office I have had several meetings with the Fire Brigades Union, the Retained Firefighters Union, the Fire Officers Association and the women’s committee of the FBU. Further meetings are in the diary. It is only through such discussions that we will bring the dispute to an end.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I welcome the Minister to her post, although I notice that she failed to answer the question—that is a great start to her ministerial career.

The Minister has made positive comments during her visits to fire stations throughout the country. The Government commissioned the Williams review on the impact of medical retirements for firefighters aged between 50 and 60, and especially the impact on women. Do the Government accept the need for minimum fitness standards?

[Penny Mordaunt]

There need to be minimum fitness standards. That is a priority for me, and it is key to bringing the dispute to an end, so we need to consider carefully how firefighters who wish to maintain operational roles can be appropriately supported to maintain their fitness standards. I have asked the chief fire and rescue adviser to chair a working group to examine these issues in detail, and I expect that group to meet later this month. I also requested, and have had, a meeting with the FBU women’s committee regarding its concerns about fitness.