Online Safety Bill

Debate between Paul Scully and Sarah Champion

Report stage
Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Scully]

I do not think I am changing my view. I am saying that this is not the last stage of the Bill, so there will be plenty of opportunity further to test this, should Members want to do so.

On new clause 28, the Government recognise and agree with the intent behind this amendment to ensure that the interests of child users of regulated services are represented. Protecting children online is the top priority in this Bill, and its key measures will ensure that children are protected from harmful content. The Bill appoints a regulator with comprehensive powers to force tech companies to keep children safe online, and the Bill’s provisions will ensure that Ofcom will listen and respond to the needs of children when identifying priority areas for regulatory action, setting out guidance for companies, taking enforcement action and responding to super-complaints.

Right from the outset, Ofcom must ensure that its risk assessment and priorities reflect the needs of children. For example, Ofcom is required to undertake research that will help understand emerging risks to child safety. We have heard a lot today about the emerging risks with changing technology, and it is important that we keep on top of those and have that children’s voice at the heart of this. The Bill also expands the scope of the Communications Consumer Panel to online safety matters. That independent panel of experts ensures that user needs are at the heart of Ofcom’s regulatory approach. Ofcom will also have the flexibility to choose other mechanisms to better understand user experiences and emerging threats. For example, it may set up user panels or focus groups.

Importantly, Ofcom will have to engage with expert bodies representing children when developing codes of practice and other regulatory guidance. For example, Ofcom will be required to consult persons who represent the interests of children when developing its codes of practice. That means that Ofcom’s codes will be fully informed by how children behave online, how they experience harm and what impact the proposed measures will have on their online experience. The super-complaints process will further enable independent bodies advocating for children to have their voices heard, and will help Ofcom to recognise and eliminate systemic failures.

As we have heard, the Government also plan to name the Children’s Commissioner for England as a statutory consultee for Ofcom when it develops its code of practice. That amendment will be tabled in the House of Lords. Through this consultation, the commissioner will be able to flag systemic issues or issues of particular importance to the regulator, helping Ofcom to target investigations and, if necessary, sanctions at matters that most affect children’s online experience.

As such, there are ample opportunities in the framework for children’s voices to be heard, and the Government are not convinced of the need to legislate for another child user advocacy body. There are plenty of bodies out there that Ofcom will already be reaching out to and there is an abundance of experience in committed representative groups that are already engaged and will be engaged with the online safety framework. They include the existing statutory body responsible for promoting the interests of children, the Children’s Commissioner. Adding an additional statutory body would duplicate existing provision, creating a confusing landscape, and that would not be in the best interests of children.

[Sarah Champion]

I hear what the Minister is saying about creating a statutory body, but will he assure this House that there is a specific vehicle for children’s voices to be heard in this? I ask because most of us here are not facing the daily traumas and constant recreation of different apps and social media ways to reach out to children that our children are. So unless we have their voice heard, this Bill is not going to be robust enough.

[Paul Scully]

As I say, we are putting the Children’s Commissioner as a statutory consultee in the Bill. Ofcom will also have to have regard to all these other organisations, such as the 5Rights Foundation and the NSPCC, that are already there. It is in the legislation that Ofcom will have to have regard to those advocates, but we are not specifically suggesting that there should be a separate body duplicating that work. These organisations are already out there and Ofcom will have to reach out to them when coming up with its codes of practice.

We also heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Mrs Elphicke) about new clause 55. She spoke powerfully and I commend her for all the work she is doing to tackle the small boats problem, which is affecting so many people up and down this country. I will continue to work closely with her as the Bill continues its passage, ahead of its consideration in the Lords, to ensure that this legislation delivers the desired impact on the important issues of illegal immigration and modern slavery. The legislation will give our law enforcement agencies and the social media companies the powers and guidance they need to stop the promotion of organised criminal activity on social media. Clearly, we have to act.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel), who brings to bear her experience as a former Home Secretary, spoke eloquently about the need to have joined-up government, to make sure that lots of bits of legislation and all Departments are working on this space. This is a really good example of joined-up government, where we have to join together.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Scully and Sarah Champion

Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Scully]

It is always a struggle to get the money out as quickly as possible, especially to those who are not paying by direct debit. Over the summer, I have been working with my officials and have directly spoken to a number of councils that have been a little slower than expected. We have issued guidance on the variety of payment methods and given short extensions to the deadline dates where councils have requested that, including in respect of any uncashed voucher-based payments with the Post Office until 30 November. We will always look to improve, to make sure that the money goes as quickly as possible to those who need it.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

This morning, the Chancellor said that his support for business energy costs will focus on efficiencies. Beatson Clark and Liberty Steel in my constituency are high energy users and they have already made every energy efficiency they can. What will the Minister do to protect businesses such as those in my constituency with this shift in policy?

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Debate between Paul Scully and Sarah Champion

Wednesday 27th October 2021 General Committees

[Paul Scully]

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

[Paul Scully]

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Scully]

[Sarah Champion]

[Paul Scully]

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Debate between Paul Scully and Sarah Champion

Wednesday 27th October 2021 General Committees

[Paul Scully]

These are an extension of the existing provisions, which are specifically for covid-related debts.

The third and final criterion is that a company winding-up petition cannot be presented in respect of commercial rent until the end of March 2022. I should say that the point of the petition is not to stop companies that have accrued debt being wound up; it should be to allow the creditor the full rights to be able to do so. We are trying to give temporary relief to businesses that are otherwise hard-pressed, specifically because of the pandemic.

The Committee will be aware that the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has announced an extension of the moratorium on the forfeiture of commercial tenancies until 25 March 2022. That is to allow time for the implementation through primary legislation of a rent arbitration scheme to help industry deal with the significant amount of commercial rental debts that have accrued during the national restrictions period.

The restrictions in the commercial rent arrears recovery scheme have been similarly extended. That measure serves not to undermine the proposed rent arbitration scheme before it is implemented, so commercial landlords will continue to operate under the previous restrictions for petitioning to wind up a company in respect of debts until the end of March 2022. We recognise that that measure might mean a further period of uncertainty for commercial landlords, who themselves might be struggling as a result of the pandemic. However, the rent arbitration scheme will deliver certainty to both the landlord and the tenant, where an agreement to pay down lockdown rent arrears has been unachievable.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I am looking for clarity. I think the Minister said that this does not cover rent. Is that right? Could he give an example of the sort of debt that would be specific to this new extended legislation? Are we talking about a supplier not paying for goods that they have taken—that sort of thing? How is it proved that it is a covid-related debt under this legislation?

[Paul Scully]

I do not want to pre-empt deliberations on this, but if a business has been closed and is unable to trade, that would be more likely to be eligible. However, the commercial debt that was within the period that we have packaged and kept aside—effectively, from the beginning to the end of lockdown—has been bundled up and will be dealt with in the next set of legislation on mandatory arbitration, which we hope we will not need.

We hope that between now and completion of that legislation a lot of companies will be able to have those conversations between tenants and landlords, knowing that otherwise they will be forced into mandatory arbitration. We want people to be able to settle their own debts and have their own discussions. The rent debts that were accrued during lockdown are ring-fenced for the purpose of that arbitration scheme, but all commercial rents that are owed after 19 July 2021 should be paid in full, as and when they fall due.

In conclusion, these new targeted criteria demonstrate that the Government have listened to the concerns raised about the potential for a cliff edge for insolvencies, once the Government’s regulatory and fiscal support has ended. The new targeted criteria represent a balance between the rights of creditors and the further protections needed by the businesses most affected by the trading restrictions placed on them. The new criteria reinforce the Government’s clear message that discussion is absolutely crucial between creditors and the debtors, who should continue to negotiate where possible. If successful, those negotiations can result in both creditors and debtors achieving the same long-term goals of continued trading, repayment of debts and a return to profits, in turn bringing benefits to themselves, their employees and the wider economy. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question proposed,

That the Committee has considered the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (S.I. 2021, No. 1091).—(Paul Scully.)

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Champion]

I do not know about these sorts of courts. I know about all the other courts, which have a massive backlog at the moment. Has the Minister estimated how long it would actually take to take this to court, and therefore how realistic the timeframe of the instrument is?

[Paul Scully]

Not in terms of the court cases themselves, but it is about the issuing of winding up. If someone starts issuing demands and then winding-up petitions, that blows a hole in the confidence of other suppliers and customers for businesses. It is the process of the petition itself, which can be done with paperwork, rather than the court hearing, which may come some way down the line, that is really key in the protection here. That is why we need to get it operative very quickly. We have all highlighted the importance of tapering the effects of the instrument, and ensuring that businesses can trade with confidence, and the certainty that we are living with covid.

The Rohingya and the Myanmar Government

Debate between Paul Scully and Sarah Champion

Tuesday 17th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) and the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main) for securing this necessary debate. I also thank my hon. Friend for the vital work that she has done in raising awareness of the persecution of the Rohingya. Sadly this abuse is not new. In 1992, a cross-party early-day motion criticised the “systematic extermination” of the Rohingya in Burma. Some 25 years later, the extermination continues.

The most recent UN report contains witness statements detailing shocking acts of violence and humiliation: children and elderly people burned in their homes; mass use of gang-rape, including soldiers gang-raping girls as young as five; victims, including children, forced to watch relatives and loved ones tortured and killed; and a pregnant woman raped, her stomach cut open, her unborn baby killed, and her nipples cut off.

Since August, more than 540,000 Rohingya have fled to Bangladesh, taking the total now in Bangladesh to more than 800,000. Sickeningly, Amnesty International and some of our colleagues have said that there are clear indications that the Burmese authorities have been deliberately targeting the Rohingya as they flee, placing landmines at border crossings.

[Paul Scully]

Does the hon. Lady agree that landmines are terrible not just for those in the present, but in 10 or 20 years’ time when, hopefully, this has been solved and children are out playing?

[Sarah Champion]

That is the perversity of the situation, and we have our eyes wide open.

The Secretary of State for International Development has said that children are at risk of “sexual violence and trafficking”. The International Rescue Committee said that there are

“reports of girls in Rohingya camps being raped or abused when going to the toilet or collecting firewood.”

There are those who suggest that there are two sides to this story, and that paramilitary attacks mean that the Rohingya are to blame for the violence. Nothing can ever justify the horrors that innocent Rohingya are suffering. The UN report contains a witness statement of a 12-year-old Rohingya girl. She told the UN team:

“They surrounded our house and started to shoot. It was a situation of panic—they shot my sister in front of me, she was only seven years old. She cried and told me to run. I tried to protect her and care for her, but we had no medical assistance on the hillside and she was bleeding so much that after one day she died. I buried her myself.”

That was a 12-year-old girl. If a proportional response existed, that could never be it. The UN also said that

“security forces targeted teachers, the cultural and religious leadership, and other people of influence of the Rohingya community in an effort to diminish Rohingya history, culture and knowledge.”

This is planned and co-ordinated ethnic cleansing. I am pleased and relieved that the Secretary of State has echoed the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights in describing it in that way, but we need not only strong language, but strong action. The director of International State Crime Initiative has called ethnic cleansing a “euphemism for genocide”. She adds that genocide is a process that takes place over many years. In 2015, the organisation described the violence towards the Rohingya as

“highly organised and genocidal in intent.”

The Bangladeshi Government have already called this genocide so I ask the Minister, if the UN finds that genocide or other violations of international law have been committed, will the British Government support a referral to the International Criminal Court?