Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Thursday 1st December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State deny the outrageous claims that his own personal consumption of energy is about to be similar to that of a small town? Can he confirm for the House that he believes in leading the energy green crusade by example rather than just by exhortation?

[Chris Huhne]

I certainly can. I shall have to ask whether it is Huddersfield or Stoke-on-Trent whose energy I am meant to be consuming. I must admit I am not sighted on that issue, but if the hon. Gentleman would like to write to me, I will be happy to give him a full reply. I can assure him that I am not a small town and that my personal energy consumption is nothing like one!

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Thursday 20th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

We have made considerable progress on this matter. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry) was talking about the aggregator, which seeks to ensure that we get good support for small businesses, and that is an important part of it. On the point about the costs being sensitive to interest rates, the way we envisage this working is that the financing will, in most cases, be available at fixed rates, so that the consumer will know in advance exactly what those interest rates will be. That is one of the reasons why the assurance can be made about the green deal offering a reduction in the overall energy bill.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T3. In five years’ time, when judgments are made about the value of the ineptocracy being created by the Tory-Lib Dem junta at the moment, will we see their main crime as being their neglect of the immense power of the tides in creating energy that is clean, British, cheap and eternal?

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Gentleman has a marvellous turn of phrase, and I pay tribute to that. However, he has chosen his question with extraordinarily inappropriate timing, because we have today announced a renewables obligation review that increases the renewables obligation certificates available for precisely the technology that he seeks to advocate.

Weightman Report (Fukushima)

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if he will make a statement on the implications for the United Kingdom of the Fukushima disaster.

[The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Chris Huhne)]

Safety is always our No. 1 concern, and we clearly needed to understand the facts before making any decisions. That is why I asked the UK’s chief nuclear inspector, Dr Mike Weightman, to look at what Fukushima means for nuclear energy in Britain and at what lessons can be learned. Today, I have presented his final report to Parliament.

I have not forbidden Dr Weightman, the UK’s chief nuclear inspector, to do anything. When I asked for a report on the lessons that could be learned from the events at Fukushima, I made it clear that he could determine, in his independent role, the scope of the report as he saw fit. Dr Weightman’s final report sets out a number of conclusions and recommendations that identify various matters that should be reviewed by the Government, the regulator and the industry, to consider whether further improvements could be made to the safety of the UK nuclear industry. As part of the regulatory regime, the industry is already legally bound regularly to review the safety of its facilities and to make reasonably practical improvements if gaps are found. Any additional costs resulting from these reviews, including as a result of the chief nuclear inspector’s report, are a matter for site operators. The initial report made it clear that the current regulatory safety framework in the UK is satisfactory, and Dr Weightman continues to see no reason to curtail the operation of nuclear power plants or other nuclear facilities here in the UK. He believes that the industry has reacted responsibly and appropriately, displaying strong leadership for safety and safety culture.

The final report restates Dr Weightman’s interim conclusions and recommendations. It also concludes that the UK practice of periodic safety reviews of licensed sites provides a robust means of ensuring continuous improvement in line with advances in technology and standards. It emphasises the need to continue the Sellafield pond and silo clean-up with the utmost vigour and determination, and it reassures us that nuclear can go on being a part of the low-carbon energy mix in the UK. Dr Weightman confirms the advice that he gave at the time of the interim report. He saw no reason to revise the strategic advice for the nuclear national policy statement or any need to change the present siting strategies for new nuclear power stations in the UK.

[Paul Flynn]

That was a very bad start. I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman was present at a seminar organised by the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology in the summer, at which Dr Weightman was asked whether he was allowed to consider costs. He said no, his remit was not to consider costs, so I believe that the Secretary of State is entirely mistaken in what he has said here. We have in the report a statement of the fairly obvious—namely, that this country is not going to have the kind of tsunamis and earthquakes that they have in Japan. It does not contain a word about the reason for the rush from nuclear throughout the world, which is cost. That is the reason that Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Malaysia and Thailand have moved away from it, and the reason that companies such as Siemens have pulled out and that RWE is probably going to do so.

I am afraid that, from the start of the disaster, the Government have decided to cover up and to conceal, but the evidence is there. The Guardian published internal e-mails from Government Departments that showed that the Business and Energy Departments worked closely behind the scenes with the multinational corporations EDF, Areva and Westinghouse to try to ensure that the accident did not derail their plans for a new generation of nuclear stations in Britain. This is a quite disgraceful, scandalous collusion between the Government and those companies, which have a commercial interest in making large sums of money out of nuclear power.

Electricity Market Reform

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

I accept the position that my hon. Friend has taken on the particular proposals that affect his area. All I would say is that by comparison with other renewable technologies, onshore wind is a tested, effective and affordable technology. It is the lowest-cost renewable technology available in these islands, and it produces electricity at a similar cost to first-of-a-kind nuclear power stations. However, I return to what I said earlier to my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns) about energy sources. It so happens that every energy source has its detractors. As I view wind turbines as beautiful, I hope that we will not find opposition all over the country to what is a cheap and effective source of energy for our consumers.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Post Fukushima, many of our competitor countries in Europe are planning nuclear-free futures, mainly because of the increased cost that Fukushima has created, by making nuclear reactors uninsurable, with a possible bill of hundreds of billions of pounds afterwards. Is it not irresponsible to go ahead with the plans in Britain without any reassessment of cost? Weightman is not allowed to consider that. Can the Minister really say that he is going ahead without subsidy? He seemed to be saying today, “We’re going to have subsidies for old nuclear and new nuclear, but call them something else.”

[Chris Huhne]

No, the hon. Gentleman is wrong on that. We are setting out a framework to discourage high-carbon activities and encourage low-carbon activities. We do not make any technological judgment about how those particular things proceed. The hon. Gentleman is right that Germany, Italy and Japan have all announced either moratoriums or pauses for new nuclear construction. However, it would be wrong to jump to the conclusion that costs will necessarily increase in those circumstances, because obviously if there is less demand for some of the components in nuclear power stations, the normal economics would tell us that their price might fall, so the process might become cheaper. However, I can assure him that we will bear safety in mind first and foremost. That is what I asked Mike Weightman to address, and that is what he has answered in the interim report and will answer in the final report.

Nuclear Industry Safety

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Wednesday 18th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn]

The nightmare of Fukushima continues and intensifies. In the past seven days, the no-go area has been extended from 20 km to 30 km, and the residents of the towns of Kawamata and Iitate have been expelled from their homes. There is now proof that the greatly feared meltdown has taken place, and it is out of control. This is all in the past seven days. It is not possible in just eight weeks to make any assessment of the extent of this terrifying event, but that is what the Government have tried to do. This is not about science; this is about spin and PR. The whole reason for putting out the report so prematurely is to shore up collapsing public opinion and investor opinion.

Of course Britain is not Japan, as the report says, but there have been tsunamis here too. There was one that affected my constituency, destroying all human and animal life, and that was on the Severn estuary, where several nuclear power stations are placed. Our threat comes from two possibilities: a terrorist attack, and especially an attack by air, or a unique climatic event. Sadly, unique climatic events are happening regularly throughout the world and are more likely to happen in future because of the climate change that is afore us. The residents of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima were all assured of the absolute safety of the installations. What Weightman does is give false reassurances for commercial reasons, to suit the Government’s programme. This report has been produced in haste. We may regret at leisure shoring up this unnecessary, subsidised form of energy creation, which the public, because of their well-founded fears, might in future prevent from being built. It is right that we should look again at the lessons of Fukushima. We do not know what they are at the moment. We should pause and look to developing the safe renewables that are inexhaustible, British and sustainable.

[Chris Huhne]

I respect the hon. Gentleman’s long-standing opposition to nuclear power and his concern, interest and expertise in these issues, but I think he has gone too far in impugning the integrity of the chief nuclear inspector. I am not a scientist, but I have had a number of meetings with Dr Weightman, and I am absolutely convinced that he is an entirely independent, well-respected professional. Indeed, he is so well respected that after I asked him to conduct the inquiry and make his recommendations, he was subsequently approached by the International Atomic Energy Agency to lead the international inquiry into Fukushima. It beggars belief not to recognise his standing in the international community and his independence. This is a fact-based and evidence-based report. My concern has always been to base our policy on the facts and the evidence, and I think that the report does that.

The hon. Gentleman raised two specific points. He will find that I entirely agree with him on extreme weather events. It is absolutely essential that all our critical energy infrastructure needs to be proof against such events, not just the nuclear facilities. On page 97 of the report, he will find a useful table that summarises the extent to which our existing nuclear power stations are prepared against seismic hazards and flood heights. The hon. Gentleman’s description of our vulnerability on this front simply does not accord with the facts as set out in Dr Weightman’s report. First and foremost, we do not have the same reactor design. Secondly, we are not subject to earthquakes of anything like the same magnitude. The earthquake that so unfortunately hit Japan was 65,000 times stronger than the largest earthquake ever recorded in British territorial areas, which was centred on Dogger Bank in 1931. The situation is therefore entirely different. The hon. Gentleman will also see a discussion in the report about the vulnerability to tsunamis, and about whether the flood defence heights set out for each of the power stations on page 97 are adequate, and the conclusions stand.

I entirely take the hon. Gentleman’s point about the importance of security against terrorist attack. This Government have been very careful to improve the security arrangements in our nuclear facilities since we came into office a little over a year ago, and we will continue to do so.

Fourth Carbon Budget

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

I do not think that the policies that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has introduced can be characterised in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests. We recently did some calculations that suggested that, given the prices we have at the petrol pump today, it makes sense to buy an electric vehicle because of the subsidies that the Secretary of State for Transport has announced in co-operation with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor. I believe that the framework has been set for very rapid growth in this area and I am confident that that is what we will see.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

As the continuing and intensifying nightmare of Fukushima has undermined the public’s confidence in nuclear, and because no nuclear power station, old or new, has ever been built on budget, on time or without public subsidy, does the Secretary of State still persist in his belief that nuclear power stations can be built here without public subsidy? If so, will he explain who will pay the billions in insurance and compensation if a major incident occurs? Will it be the industry or, as in Japan now, the taxpayer?

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Gentleman has a long track record of concern on this subject, which I respect. Some of the answers to his questions will be there when we see the interim and then the final report from the chief nuclear inspector, Mike Weightman. I hope that we can bring that forward very rapidly and then the hon. Gentleman will be able to see for himself. He is right in one respect, on which I entirely agree with him: if there is to be, as the nuclear industry hopes, a nuclear renaissance, it is absolutely crucial that the nuclear industry shows that it can deliver on time and to budget. Investors will not come forward on a repeated basis if that is not the case.

I can certainly confirm that we will not be providing public subsidy to nuclear and that we see nuclear as part of the energy mix for the future provided that safety concerns are met—we have the Mike Weightman review to be announced shortly—and provided that investors are prepared to come forward. At the moment, the indications are that investors are prepared to come forward provided that we put in place, as I believe the House has already done with the regulatory justification, the necessary steps to facilitate the normal big infrastructure spending that it involves.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Thursday 16th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

As my hon. Friend knows, the discount scheme available to people is a voluntary scheme. We are bringing forward the warm home discount bonus for next year, a scheme that will be clearly underpinned by legislation. In the short run, we are putting pressure on Ofgem, as I have previously described in the House, and Ofgem is putting pressure on the suppliers, to ensure that there are not excessive margins in the industry. In the longer term, which is the key if we are to deal with fuel poverty, we have to deal with its root causes. We cannot go on applying sticking-plasters, in the form of discounts or short-term help. The only long-term solution, as we have seen from the failure of the strategy to deal with fuel poverty over the last few years, when it has risen substantially, is to deal with the root causes by improving energy efficiency in the homes of those affected.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn]

In order to inform myself of the effects of the green deal on Harlow, I researched a website this morning, which states:

“The nuclear industry’s key skill over the past half-century has not been generating electricity, but extracting lashings of taxpayers’ money.”

That was on the website of someone called Chris Huhne. Does this person have any connection with the Secretary of State? Has he sold his principles for a Red Box?

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Gentleman should be very aware that the coalition Government are committed to no public subsidy for the nuclear industry for some very good reasons, one of which is in the quotation that he so gracefully supplies to the House.

Electricity Market Reform

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Thursday 16th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments and particularly for the helpful way in which she couched them. Of course we will be open to Opposition comments on the details of this matter through the consultation period and further on into the legislation. We shall need £110 billion of investment in electricity infrastructure and a total of £200 billion in energy, and one of the most valuable things we can tell investors is that there is, although I do not want to overstate it, substantial cross-party consensus between the coalition parties and the Opposition. That is very valuable in attracting big foreign investors in particular because it means that in the period over which there can be a payback of investments, which might be 20 years, foreign investors can be assured that there will be real stability of policy. I very much value that consensus and very much want to work with the hon. Lady to make sure it is there.

Let me deal with the hon. Lady’s concerns about consumers, which are absolutely appropriate. We have to make sure that business consumers and households in Britain get the best possible deal in supplies of energy—in this case, electricity. A fundamental part of the policy proposal that I hope she will welcome is that by providing investors with the certainty of a feed-in tariff, with a contract for difference, we will attract investment from the big six electricity companies and attract into the market other players—new entrants—to make it more competitive. We will also unlock the pools of capital that various Members have been concerned will not be available without this framework. It is very much part of our thinking that in trying to deal with the underlying problem of a more competitive market we should get more players into the market, because that will ultimately give the best assurance to consumers that we will get the best possible deal.

The hon. Lady asked about the shorter-term view. I made it clear in my statement that this package will deliver lower-cost electricity for consumers than would otherwise be the case on a 2030 view. We will redo the estimates for overall energy policy in the annual energy statement. As far as I can see, on the current basis there is no reason to expect that to change. In the summer, we said that with the overall package of policies we had set out, if one takes into account the energy efficiency packages and the likely reduction in bills as a result, consumers would pay about 1% more in 2020 than would otherwise be the case. That figure involves a fundamental assumption that the oil price will be $80 a barrel at that time, with a corresponding gas price, but oil prices might be substantially higher; obviously, spot oil prices are substantially higher today. The break-even point for consumers is $100 a barrel, and if the price goes north of that the policy framework we are setting out will leave British consumers paying less than if they were reliant, over the relevant period, on the volatility of the world oil and gas markets. That is fundamental. We are dealing with conditions of considerable uncertainty about the future, particularly in the oil and gas markets. We have heard today that the US Attorney General is taking a case against BP as a result of what happened in the gulf of Mexico. We know that there are rising risks and costs in extracting fossil fuels and we have to take that into account when we set a policy that can protect British consumers from the vagaries that might come.

The green investment bank is going to be a clear part of our thinking in dealing with the enormous investment challenge, and Ministers are reviewing the exact market failures that we are attempting to address with the bank. It is a long-term project and the most important thing, when we talk about decarbonising the UK economy, is not to get up and running for 1 January next year a green investment bank that might be half-baked, but to get it right. This institution has to be with us for the long term, right through to 2050, providing lending to help decarbonise the economy over the long haul, so I would much rather get it right than do it early and get it wrong.

I take on board the hon. Lady’s point about the need to deliver. I shall not rub salt in the Opposition’s wounds about the 13 years they were in power, but I remind her that we have inherited the position of being 25th out of 27 EU member states on renewable energy. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) might chunter about that, but these are the facts. I am not making any comments about them, but am merely saying that we are 25th out of 27 EU countries and we need to improve that position.

The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) also asked us to make available our modelling basis and I am very happy to do that. Indeed, the models that we used for the 2050 pathways study are already available on the Department’s website. Any Member of the House will find that function very user-friendly; it is Professor David Mackay’s favourite executive toy. Users can decide they want more renewables, a little less nuclear, a little more nuclear or a little more clean coal, put the change in and find out what the consequences would be. We aim to be extremely open and transparent in our whole process.

On the European Parliament, the reality is that we will determine these matters in this Parliament, not the European Parliament. I note that we have an overwhelming majority, judging by the recent vote on the regulatory justification for nuclear, for the sort of package that we have set out.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it appropriate, given what the Speaker has said about short statements, that the Secretary of State’s answer to a single question has been longer than the original statement?

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Gentleman is right. Some issues can be tackled at national level; one planning issue on onshore wind surrounds aviation impacts and radar, and we should obviously lead that at national level. But I refer him to the answer that I gave previously: local people should be able to determine local planning and, therefore, local impact. If they are on board, and if they are brought into the proposals, renewable projects go ahead. That is our experience throughout the UK, and that will be the right way forward in getting planning approval for renewable projects.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

On what day in May was the right hon. Gentleman bewitched by the Pied Piper of nuclear power into learning to love a nuclear stealth tax? He and his party used to know that nuclear has never delivered on time or on budget, and that the only new nuclear power station in the world is already three years late and £4 billion over budget. Is it not irrational optimism for him to believe that it will be different here?

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Gentleman is a careful student of the economics of nuclear power and is well aware of the track record. When he looks at the consultation document, he will see that we are providing greater revenue certainty for all low-carbon sources of energy. We provide no subsidy to construction for any particular sort of energy, and no subsidy to any particular type of energy on the basis of that energy’s characteristics. That means, for example, that if someone comes forward wanting to build a new nuclear power station, all the risks of construction—all the risks of delivering on time and to budget—fall on the investor, not the UK Government. If, on that basis, investors come forward, and they assure me that they will, I believe we will have new nuclear power stations, but if there is any delay in construction, that cost will fall to the investor, not to the UK Government.

[Paul Flynn]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, can I give notice that I wish to raise this issue on the Adjournment of the House?

Redfern Inquiry

Debate between Paul Flynn and Chris Huhne

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

I would be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and his neighbour on this and any other issue. The industry is important to their part of the world, and I hope that the relationships can improve and that we can provide some reassurance to the families that such events will never happen again. We extend our condolences to those in distress.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State congratulate Dr David Lowry on publishing evidence from the 1962 report of the Medical Research Council’s National Radiological Protection Board to show that there was an experiment in which people, including pregnant women, young people under 18 and those without fatal diseases, were exposed to doses of radiation of the most long-lived type, including strontium, plutonium and caesium? Is this not a sad story of the nuclear industry being far more interested in public relations than in public health?