Psychoactive Substances Bill [Lords]

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 20th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I could not put it better myself. That is what concerns me about the Bill. The point was made that if this is seen to be a blanket ban—and a stupid ban because it bans perfectly innocuous substances—that will undermine the very purpose for which the law is being passed.

[Paul Flynn]

Does not the right hon. Lady think that if we treat these nootropic drugs differently from all the other new psychoactive drugs, there is a danger that we give them some credibility or approval? There has been some research into their harm, or otherwise. The trials have been poorly designed, and they have not found any great dangers in them, but they would not be accepted as being right for a medicinal drug. I understand her constituent’s commercial interest, but would it not be dangerous to treat this group the same as any other and thereby give the public the impression that they are harmless, because we do not know that?

[Mrs Gillan]

I do not think that putting them on the exempted list means that anybody should draw the conclusion that they are harmless. They obviously have an effect of some sort on individuals; otherwise, my constituent would not have, as he reports to me, 32% repeat orders for many of these substances. I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. However, in relation to cholinergics, the National Academy of Sciences has said that choline is a dietary requirement, as I mentioned, and the Food and Drug Administration has recommended 425 milligrams of choline intake a day. With regard to racetams, oxiracetam, for example, has been shown to improve step-down, retention and acquisition performance in research carried out on rats, I believe, and was supported in a paper in “Behavioural Brain Research” in 1996. I have various other references citing good research carried out into these drugs; some, I admit, have not had so much research into them.

The purpose of amendment 1 is to make sure that the law of unintended consequences does not apply to this Bill. The Minister needs to reassure my constituent, and the many organisations such as online companies and health food shops that sell these substances, that either they do not fall within the ambit of this Bill, and that therefore they need not concern themselves about falling foul of it, or, if he thinks that these substances need more research, to tell us what needs to be done. I expect, at the bare minimum, that he will undertake to review the products that I have listed in the amendment and to let us know, after discussions with the ACMD, what he intends to do. I hope that he will be able either to add these products to the exempted list or to let us know that the Bill does not apply to them. If it does not, he needs to reassure my constituent by letting me know the timescales within which he will investigate these products and perhaps others that might be brought to his attention.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), who is one of the most distinguished and respected Members of this House, and makes her case very powerfully. I owe her an apology. Because of the speed with which the Home Affairs Committee had to look at the Bill, owing to the timetable that the Government gave us, we did not have the opportunity to explore properly the points she has made or to take evidence from her constituent and others who might have felt that they were going to be affected by it. If we had had more time, we certainly would have had them before us. I am sure that, as is our policy, when we come to review this Bill in a few months’ time we will have the opportunity to consider exactly what its effect has been. I thank her for tabling the amendment and for reminding the House of the importance of all the other products that might be caught by the Bill.

I want to commend the Minister, who is rapidly becoming one of my favourite Home Office Ministers, partly because he agreed to be Father Christmas at the Westminster kids club party, and did it so well, but also because he is prepared to listen to the House. He said he would look at the work of the Select Committee and try to reflect some of it in the amendments he tabled in Committee, and he did so in the case of many of our recommendations. Yesterday he sent me—I thank him for giving me plenty of time to read it for today’s debate—the Government’s response to the Bill’s Committee stage and to our recommendations.

I thank the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) for last year pushing the Select Committee to hold an inquiry before the House had to consider the Bill on Second Reading. Again, we were caught out by the Government’s timetable being moved forward, as a result of which we did not have all the time in the world to consider these things. However, I thank him for doing it. I thank members of the Bill Committee, some of whom are here today, for the work they did at very short notice to ensure that that happened. The hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) attended many of the Committee’s sittings despite the fact that she was serving on two other Committees at the same time.

The Government have moved on several of the points that we have made. They were right to legislate—there is no question about that. This has been in the in-tray of successive Home Office Ministers for a number of years. The previous Labour Government were committed to doing something about it—it was in our manifesto, as our excellent shadow Home Office Minister said—and I am sure that if the votes had fallen in the opposite direction, we would have a Labour Minister introducing a similar Bill. I therefore say well done to the Minister for doing this and for incorporating most of what we have suggested.

I particularly want to talk about amendments 1 and 5. It is very important that we give support to voluntary organisations such as the Angelus Foundation, which invariably know more than Government, because they draw on the experience of real, live people, and they are prepared to come together voluntarily to try to warn the public and Parliament about the risks of these substances. I am glad that we are not using the term “legal highs” any more, because, as the report clearly says, that encourages people to want to try them.

I agree very much with the shadow Minister’s comments about education, which I am sure the Minister will echo. We cannot do too much to persuade young people that they should not be taking these substances. My children are 20 and 18, and they are away at university. It is every parent’s nightmare that one of their children, on a night out after studying and doing their work, will be offered a substance that is perfectly legal, take it, and then be ill and, in some cases, die. The Home Affairs Committee therefore absolutely support the Government’s tough approach.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I know of the great work that my hon. Friend has been doing on apprenticeships. Although we are a small Department, which relies on the Ministry of Justice for many of our services, I will do what I can to ensure that our suppliers are encouraged to adopt similar practices. My hon. Friend might be pleased to know that the Welsh Government recruited 24 new apprentices in 2010 and 66 in 2011. I will write to them to ask whether they can ensure that their suppliers do what he suggests.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Although I greatly I admire the work of my close comrade, the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), is not there a danger that apprenticeships that are essentially relabelled job creation and job experience schemes or internships, without a job, skill or indentures at the end, are likely to increase the cynicism and disillusionment among young people?

[Mrs Gillan]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that, for example, all the apprentices at the Welsh Government undertake business administration NVQs and are recruited through fair and open competition via their website, with support from Careers Wales and Jobcentre Plus. That shows that the apprentice programmes are equipping young people to take up jobs in the future. [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

My hon. Friend knows that I try to give encouragement to the Welsh Labour Minister for Business, rather than giving her advice, but I am pleased that the Welsh Affairs Committee is investigating trade and investment, and I look forward to giving evidence to the Committee next month. I continue to hold a series of meetings to see how we can assist and work with the Welsh Government to improve those figures.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

But is not inward investment always a second best? Brace’s bakery, an indigenous Welsh firm with its headquarters in Crumlin, took over an inward investment company in my constituency that was about to close down. On Monday, Brace’s increased its work force by a third, so will the Secretary of State give her congratulations and support to indigenous Welsh companies, and ensure that the rest of the country enjoys the great merits of Brace’s breads and Welsh cakes?

[Mrs Gillan]

Now the hon. Gentleman is tempting me; I always like a good Welsh cake. He should know how much I encourage indigenous Welsh companies, not least by my continuous support of the Fast Growth 50, which celebrates indigenous companies and the way they grow the economy, but he must not do down inward investment. In 2010-2011, 38 inward investment projects led to the creation of 2,444 new jobs and safeguarded another 1,100 jobs in Wales. I think that is pretty important and certainly not second best.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I have been concerned about the position of Wales and enterprise zones from the minute that they were announced for England, not least because we have announced that there will be enterprise zones at Bristol and Merseyside. I am concerned that the enterprise zones on the English side of the border will affect inward investment in Wales, which is why I encouraged the Welsh Government to engage with us so that we can establish mechanisms that do not allow those two enterprise zones, which are so close to Wales, to suck business out of Wales.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

4. What assessment she has made of the potential effects on Wales of implementation of the provisions of the Welfare Reform Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Lady knows that throughout the years when I have been both shadow Secretary of State and now Secretary of State for Wales, I have been very supportive of all the work that has been done, particularly on tidal lagoons, as well as in examining the case for the Severn barrage, which has, of course, been put to one side for the time being. I can assure her, businesses in her constituency and our research institutes that we will always consider that option for future generation in and around the Welsh coast.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

In addition to the fear of a Welsh Fukushima, the cost of new nuclear is such that the only new nuclear power station in the world is already three years late and £2 billion over budget. Why does the Secretary of State not concentrate on the immense power of the tides in Wales, including the second highest rise and fall of tide in the world, and give us energy that is clean, safe and eternal?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman has been consistent, but he has asked questions on this matter of the Minister with responsibility for energy, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), and of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and he knows very well that the Government’s view is that tidal energy has a part to play in our energy programmes of the future, but so, too, has nuclear.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

Energy is certainly a key priority of this Government and we are working hard to ensure that the UK, including Wales, has an energy infrastructure that is fit for the 21st century.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the exciting plans of the Welsh Assembly Government to generate enough electricity for every home in Wales from non-barrage marine sources offers Wales an energy future, like that of Ireland and Scotland, that will be nuclear free and renewables rich?

[Mrs Gillan]

I am not sure that I caught the drift of the hon. Gentleman’s question, but I have always welcomed the work that is being done to enable Wylfa A to continue to generate low-carbon electricity for a further two years until 2012. I was also delighted that Wylfa was chosen as the site for a potential new station in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

7. What recent discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on steps to increase employment opportunities in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

May I apologise, Mr Speaker, for not welcoming the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) to the Front Bench? I am so incensed by the previous Government’s treatment of the economy that it quite passed me by, but I would not want any impoliteness, and I welcome him warmly to the Front Bench.

I have had regular discussions regarding increasing employment opportunities in Wales with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, and he is as committed as I am to ensuring that the Welsh economy benefits fully from new growth in the economy.

[Paul Flynn]

Wales, and Newport in particular, have provided a successful and welcoming habitat for jobs that were relocated from London. Would it not be a great shame if the present cuts hit disproportionately Welsh areas, resulting in the reversal of that very successful process? Will the Secretary of State renew her efforts to persuade Government that a cut of 250 jobs at the Newport passport office would seem especially devastating if they understood the local situation?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman knows exactly how I feel about the issues concerning the immigration and passport office, because I was delighted to welcome him and the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) into the Department to meet the Minister for Immigration and me to discuss its future. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: Newport is a city that ranks third in the Lambert Smith Hampton study of the best office locations outside London. We have businesses there such as Admiral, Wales and West Utilities, and even the HM Prison Service shared service centre. I can assure him that I will make my best efforts to protect all the jobs in Newport that I can, and to promote Newport among my colleagues as a good place to which to relocate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Flynn and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 8th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

12. What recent discussions she has had on opportunities for the leisure industry in south-east Wales arising from the forthcoming Ryder cup.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

I have recently visited a number of venues associated with the leisure industry in Wales, and I have seen at first hand some of the preparations being made for the 2010 Ryder cup. I have been impressed by all the hard work that will make this event a great Welsh success, and I am sure that, like the people of Newport, we are all anxious to see this fantastic event tee off in three weeks’ time in Wales.

[Paul Flynn]

This is a wonderful, unique opportunity for us to show off our city of Newport and the rest of Wales. Will the Minister guarantee that she will do everything she can to ensure that there is a full legacy from the Ryder cup for the young people of Newport, Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Mrs Gillan]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. The Ryder cup is going to be fantastic in Wales and I would urge Members to encourage their constituents who enjoy golf to visit this fantastic venue. The legacy fund already involves a £2 million investment by the Welsh Assembly Government, and it has so far distributed £1.5 million in grants for various projects across Wales. This is an event for Wales that all the political parties can come together and support wholeheartedly.