Members’ Paid Directorships and Consultancies

Paul Flynn Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ms Eagle]

My hon. Friend, as ever, makes a point that is acute and important.

To those who argue that this will all narrow the experience of politicians in Westminster, I would argue that experience useful in our legislature is not purely gained by being paid for doing a second or third job. I have found many interesting and enjoyable ways over the years to stay in touch with constituents and gain a valuable insight into what is happening in the communities we represent. The payment of large supplementary incomes is not essential in gaining that experience.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend believe that for the sake of clarity, particularly for people outside this place, everyone who speaks or intervenes should say how much they earn from outside sources and what they do with the money? I will start by saying that I earn £7,000 a year and for the past 27 years every penny of it has gone to charity.

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[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is that the declaration should be made where it does not impede the progress of debate, and it should certainly not impair the decorum of the debate. [Interruption.] Order. Members can study the matter, which is treated of in some detail in “Erskine May”. The House would be the first to complain, and rightly so, if I were to read out what is in “Erskine May”. I do not do that. I do not need to do that. Members should apprise themselves of what is said in “Erskine May” on the matter and judge their actions accordingly, which I know the hon. Gentleman, in particular, is extremely adept at doing. I suggest that others could usefully follow his example.

[Paul Flynn]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Very briefly, would it not solve the problem, and be in the spirit of “Erskine May”, if Members gave us not a long catalogue of interests, but an approximate total of the money they receive from them every year?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member of this House. He has made his point, and I think that he has done so with a puckish grin. He knows that I do not need to rule upon it.

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[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

The Tories just do not get it. After the great screaming nightmare of the expenses scandal, when our reputation in this country was ruined, sometimes unjustly, we have to try to win it back. I have suggested in books, including one in 1997, that the best way to win the respect of the country is to accept that £67,000 is a full-time wage for which we have to do a full-time job. I have just looked up one Member who spoke earlier and found that he is earning £200,000. He has not said so. The last speaker did not say how much he is earning. We want transparency in this debate.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

Would it not be reasonable to suggest that if somebody wants to do a part-time job, or half a job, they should give half their salary back?

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[Paul Flynn]

Entirely reasonable. There are mechanisms available, and I commend them to Members. I made a recommendation on that in 1997.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

May I say to the hon. Gentleman, since this is an example of the low-level sparring from which we suffer, that the reason I did not declare an interest is that I have not got any?

[Paul Flynn]

I was referring to the right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry). If Members do not have an interest, so be it, but the right hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan) had an interest in the past—I remember that he had an interest in his neighbour’s council house a long time ago, of which he has no reason to be proud.

In 1994 we had a disgraceful episode in which Members were caught asking for money for questions, and we have it again now. Can we not accept the shame of what has happened in the past week, when greatly respected, experienced Members have shamed themselves in public and shamed all of us? It shames decent politics, and the only people who will be helped by it are those who are into anti-politics and suggest extremist answers. That will come home to roost in a few weeks’ time, when the respectable parties in the House—the parties based on idealism, as all our main parties are—will be damaged in the poll. We deserve to be damaged, unless we have reforms.

Where will the reforms come from? The Leader of the House said that there had been reforms with regard to the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments and the revolving door, but we have had nothing of the sort. It is still possible for any Minister to prostitute their insider knowledge and sell their contacts and experience to the highest bidder. What is to stop them? Not ACOBA—that has not been reformed and is not the Rottweiler it should be. It will say that Members cannot take jobs in areas where they were once Ministers, and cannot do deals while they are Ministers. However, when a contract is up, the Minister will get an indication that if he gives it to firm B, rather than firms C or D, firm B will ensure that he gets a sinecure—a lovely job in retirement. He will get his hacienda in Spain. That is still going on.

The Government have just appointed a new chair of ACOBA who thinks it is reasonable for her to receive £800 a day for a part-time job. People on that committee—the great and the good—are taking those jobs on the basis of what they have gained in public work and in this job. This job should be the pinnacle of their career, but it is not any more; it is a staging post to getting riches later. We have done nothing about double jobs at all. Because of their insiderdom—because they view this issue from the inside—Members have failed to see what the public see from outside: people on the make who come here and use their election and status to make large sums of money.

[Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

What would the hon. Gentleman say to firemen in my constituency who have second jobs, and to policemen in his constituency, many of whom have quite legitimate second jobs that they manage to do outside their public service, publicly funded, well-paid jobs?

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[Paul Flynn]

That is not a serious intervention.

Let us hear the promise of the Prime Minister from 8 February 2010. He said:

“We can’t go on like this. I believe it’s time we shone the light of transparency on lobbying in our country and forced our politics to come clean about who is buying power and influence.”

They are still buying power and influence. The pathetic lobbying Bill affected just 1% of corporate lobbyists. It was a bit of a nuisance for charities, but we have not had control of lobbyists.

What about honours? We have done more to degrade honours than King Charles I and Lloyd George. The Prime Minister set up a special committee to give honours —21 every year—to MPs. That has never been done before. Most of them are failed MPs, or MPs who are disappointed because they have been sacked. We have further degraded the honours system. We have not made any of the great reforms that we should have made and that we promised in order to win back the trust and confidence of the country, which was lost with the terrible scandal of 2009.

Finally, we make a point when we start our business every day, although it is not published. Let us think what the words mean when we say our prayers:

“May they”—

that is, us—

“never lead the nation wrongly through love of power, desire to please, or unworthy ideals”—

there are plenty of those around—

“but laying aside all private interests and prejudices keep in mind their responsibility to seek to improve the condition of all mankind”.

We have seen a Parliament in which many people have prostituted their high office and the great privilege of being here for their own private greed. It has got to stop.