European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Barry Sheerman

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Sheerman]

I find this very awkward, because I nearly always agree with my right hon. Friend, but is not what is missing from this debate the responsibility that we have as parliamentarians to care for young people who are very vulnerable? Up and down this country, young people are vulnerable to sexual predators and ghastly things happen to them right up to the age of 18. This move towards making people adults at 16 will make a lot of young men and women more vulnerable to sexual predation than they are at the moment.

[Mr McFadden]

I have huge mutual respect for my hon. Friend, but I do not see the connection between extending voting rights to people at 16 and making them more vulnerable to sexual predators.

Of course, the first major poll in the UK in which 16 and 17-year-olds were allowed to vote was last year’s Scottish independence referendum. That major referendum tested all the familiar arguments that we have heard before and which we may hear in this debate about whether such people are old enough to understand the issues and mature enough to take part in the debate and exercise their democratic responsibilities. I do not think that anyone on either side of the independence debate argues that Scotland’s 16 and 17-year-olds did not pass those tests with flying colours. Many campaigners have said that the debates among 16 and 17-year-olds were some of the most engaged and informed of the referendum campaign. The post-referendum report by the Electoral Commission said:

“109,593 16 and 17 year olds were included on the registers by the registration deadline and 75% of those we spoke to claimed to have voted. Importantly, 97% of those 16-17 year olds who reported having voted said that they would vote again in future elections and referendums.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McFadden]

We could argue that there are some rights that people do not get even at 18. In the end, it is a matter of judgment. I do not want to go through the list again, but when people can start to work, pay taxes and do many other things, there is at least a reasonable case for giving them the right to vote.

[Mr Sheerman]

A small minority of Labour Members worry that we will make 16 the age of becoming an adult, which will shrink childhood at a time when kids in this country are going to live to 100. The amount of time that they will be children is getting smaller as a percentage of their life. There are arguments for and against certain things happening at 16 and at 18, but if the Opposition amendments became law, they would mean that young people would become adults at 16.

[Mr McFadden]

My hon. Friend has made his point about shrinking childhood before. I say to him that maturity is not an exact science. There will be some people who are mature at 16 or perhaps less, and some who manage to hang on to their immaturity for a great many years after that. I do not believe that any of us can pinpoint an exact age.

One thing that the EU referendum has in common with the major constitutional referendum that took place in Scotland last year is that it is a decision for a long time into the future. To quote the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond), who is not here today, it is a decision to be made once in a lifetime, or at least for a generation, not something to be repeated every few years. I hope that all hon. Members will agree with that. The referendum will not return every few years like general elections.

Manufacturing

Debate between Pat McFadden and Barry Sheerman

Thursday 24th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Sheerman]

I would go 90% of the way with the hon. Gentleman, but I would not accept the word “collapse”, because we still have a vibrant, though much smaller, manufacturing sector in engineering and chemicals. The textiles, engineering and chemicals industries are still there, and have very high productivity, but the capability now is such that we turn out an enormous amount of worsted in a crinkly shed—not one of the magnificent old stone mills—that is working 24/7. I think we underrate the productivity of some of those industries.

I do not want to make Members suicidal, but let us compare the decline of the UK’s manufacturing sector with that of other countries before moving on to something more cheerful. In Great Britain around 8.8% of employment is in manufacturing. Some figures for 2008 indicate 9.8% for manufacturing and 80.8% for services. Things are very similar, if not worse, in the United States, where employment in 2009 was 8.9% in manufacturing and 83.4% in services. The decline of manufacturing in the UK has very much gone in parallel with the experience of the US. By comparison, Germany still has 18.5% in manufacturing and 73% in services, and China has 27.8% in manufacturing and 53% in services.

I want to draw the House’s attention to the UK’s balance of trade, particularly the trade deficit with Germany, which last year was £16.8 billion, and with China, which was £21.6 billion. Whatever is happening today, and despite the depressing interview with Chancellor Merkel last night, which persuaded me that we are on the precipice of a world recession, we must remember that Germany has been very fortunate and that the eurozone has been very kind to German manufacturers over this period. The renminbi, the Chinese currency, which the Chinese conveniently manipulate to give their manufacturing exports every possible advantage, has done the same for China.

I want to dwell on the future and what kind of society we want. It seems to me that we want a wealth-creating society that produces the goods and wealth that can then be shared. Some of us disagree about the levels of individual and corporate taxation, but we all agree that we have to produce the wealth in order to share it, whatever way we choose to do so. I am concerned that if we do not do something in the manufacturing sector we will not have very much to share.

What do we depend on? A core element at every level of activity is the fact that in every facet of human experience success depends on the quality of the people who do the job, their skills and commitment and their desire to do a good job. In the 10 years that I chaired the Education and Skills Committee, that came home time and again. The history of our country is one of clever and skilled people with ingenuity, determination and a hunger to do something. We have had an amazing crop of entrepreneurs. At the heart of our manufacturing problem is the fact that too many people in our country who go to university do not go into manufacturing. I remember walking across the hallowed lawns of Magdalen college with the master some years ago. I asked him whether any of his graduates went into manufacturing or public service. He replied, “Oh no, they all go into the City.” If we continue to make the City and banking the profession of choice, we will be in even more trouble than we are in at the moment.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is drawing attention to the place of engineering in academic ambition. Does he welcome, as a corrective to the problem, the recently announced Queen Elizabeth prize for engineering, a £1 million prize overseen by the Royal Academy of Engineering, which is designed precisely to elevate the status of engineering, creativity and innovation for the next generation of young people?

[Mr Sheerman]

I agree absolutely, and was going to mention that. I was also going to mention the Aldridge Foundation and Rod Aldridge, who founded Capita. He puts a great deal of money into education and is absolutely obsessed with finding entrepreneurs and giving them a chance to become successful.

We must ensure that there is reward for the risk of being an entrepreneur. We have to be open about the fact that that is what we want to reward. No one on either side of the House should fail to realise that. I do not mind seeing entrepreneurs getting super salaries. I have a great deal of sympathy with some aspects of the 99% campaign, but I do not mind people earning a great deal of money and being rewarded if they are entrepreneurs who produce jobs and wealth. I am worried when people in pretty safe and comfortable jobs, who are never going to risk anything, get millions of pounds a year. That is what I do not like.

On skills and training, the STEM subjects are neglected in our country, and we need more young people to stay with science, technology, engineering and mathematics longer.