Leaving the EU: Customs

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)]

Our negotiations with Europe are the most complex for a generation. I support transparency, scrutiny and democratic decision making, but it is utterly ludicrous to expect one side at the negotiating table to have a higher level of disclosure on its negotiating position than is expected of those on the other side—the EU. That is why I will not be supporting the motion tonight. It ties our hands.

It is utterly normal in international negotiations for parties to consider more than one option. When the EU wanted to reform the common agricultural policy, there were four options; when it published its recent paper on the future of Europe, there were five options.

We should not somehow blame the Government for being slow in deciding their future option. The Government laid out their options last August, and I was in Ireland discussing it with businesses on both sides of the border within a fortnight, but it was only last Sunday that the Irish Foreign Minister suggested he is open to having more exploratory talks.

I do not blame the Irish for taking time. I grew up on the border in Northern Ireland. I was born and raised in Omagh, where 29 people lost their lives after the Good Friday agreement. I will not jeopardise the Good Friday agreement; I will not jeopardise peace in Northern Ireland; and I will not jeopardise the Union that holds our country united.

We have to find a solution that works. Neither of the two solutions is perfect.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

I take at face value the hon. Lady’s comments about her support for the Good Friday agreement, but what is her response to the people in Northern Ireland, including the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, who disagree with her, who feel that Brexit risks a hard border and who feel that that would damage peace?

[Vicky Ford]

We have to find a solution that meets the Prime Minister’s criterion of no hard border in Northern Ireland, which is why I want to continue the discussions on the partnership agreement. The partnership agreement is not perfect, and it has never been done before, but we should let the Government continue negotiating and not close down options.

The “max fac” solution is not perfect, either. Some 145,000 businesses that trade with Europe would have to start doing customs declarations for the first time, and it relies on the small business exemption on the border in Ireland, which puts our relationship with Ireland into permanent potential conflict because Ireland would end up having to be the policeman of our door with Europe.

We need to continue looking, but we also need to remember that resolving customs is only part of this discussion. It does not even solve the goods issue. We still need to deal with rules of origin. Incidentally, will the Minister please make sure we look at pan-Euro-Mediterranean cumulation of origin as a sensible option?

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

I think this shows that it is incumbent on everyone in public life to think very carefully about the words they use in public and the way they may be interpreted.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

I too welcome the Secretary of State and the Under-Secretary. I look forward to working with them and of course wish the Secretary of State’s predecessor a speedy recovery.

We understand that the Secretary of State will not want to give a running commentary on the talks, but there is enormous frustration in Northern Ireland after a year in limbo, with successive Secretaries of State telling us exactly the same thing. Can she at least confirm that one of the big sticking points in the talks is rights—not just language rights, but marriage equality rights? Can she tell us whether she will consider taking that issue off the table by legislating for equal marriage rights in Northern Ireland, which are enjoyed in Staffordshire?

[Karen Bradley]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. As I said, I do not wish to say anything at this stage—I know it is frustrating for all that I cannot say more, and I am frustrated too—but I will come to this House and make a full statement as and when I am able to. Equal marriage is clearly a devolved issue and quite rightly should be legislated for in Stormont. That is the right place for this legislation to be enacted, and I look forward to a devolved Government being in place that can do that. He will recall that when the matter was debated in this Chamber for our constituents in England and Wales, these Benches were entitled to a free vote and Members of Parliament voted in line with their conscience.

[Owen Smith]

And the right hon. Lady will know that Northern Ireland did have a vote in the Assembly on this issue in November last year. It voted in favour of taking forward marriage equality for Northern Ireland, so she could show leadership on this issue and respect devolution, and potentially bring forward the prospect of devolution being resolved. Will she answer a very simple question that I think many people in Northern Ireland will want me to ask: what is she going to do differently in the weeks and months ahead to show leadership and break the deadlock?

[Karen Bradley]

The talks have resumed. They are detailed and intense. The parties are engaged and are working late into the night most nights to reach a resolution. I think that the politicians in Northern Ireland understand the frustration of the people of Northern Ireland and want to deliver for them, but there are differences that need to be overcome. I am doing everything I can to try to get a resolution so that accommodation can be found and devolved government can be restored.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I know the Prime Minister dealt with this in her statement on Monday, but let me say that we will be leaving the customs union and the single market. The hon. Lady talks about divergence, but actually the joint report talks about alignment, which is about pursuing the same objectives. That could be the same way, but it could be different. That is the whole point. It is about achieving those positive objectives, and that is what we will do.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

As you know, Mr Speaker, agriculture is more important in Northern Ireland than in any other part of the UK, and Northern Ireland is more reliant on EU farm payments than any other part of the UK, so 30,000 Ulster farmers need certainty about what Brexit is going to mean for them. In her Florence speech, the Prime Minister reassured them that transition would occur under

“the existing structure of EU rules and regulations”—

including, I presume, the common agricultural policy—but on Monday she said the opposite. She said that on 29 March 2019, we will be leaving the common agricultural policy. Which one is right?

[James Brokenshire]

They are both right. We have said clearly that yes, we are leaving the common agricultural policy, but we have also said that we will maintain payments in relation to those arrangements through to 2020. Indeed, if the hon. Gentleman wants to look back at what the Prime Minister said about maintaining the same arrangements during the implementation period, that will answer his question.

[Owen Smith]

That cannot be correct. It cannot be right both that we will be under exactly the same EU rules and regulations, which is what the Prime Minister said in Florence, and that we will be leaving the common agricultural policy. If it is true that we are leaving the common agricultural policy, those 30,000 Ulster farmers and their families need to know how they are going to pay their mortgages and meet their other commitments in just 15 months’ time. This is a complete shambles. The Prime Minister is going to be here in a minute—can the Secretary of State tell her to sort this out?

[James Brokenshire]

The only shambles is the Opposition’s approach to Brexit. At this time of the year, many people will mark the 12 days of Christmas; we have had at least 12 different approaches to Brexit from Labour. Yes, we will be leaving the common agricultural policy, as the Prime Minister said on Monday, but she also underlined clearly our commitment in respect of those direct payments and, as I say, the transition and the need to provide certainty. The hon. Gentleman’s scaremongering does nothing to add to this—

European Council

Owen Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about this country’s important role in the market for digital services, which is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has set out a digital strategy. I was rather surprised by the derision from the Opposition at the suggestion that we should encourage a single market in digital services in the European Union, which we can trade with and sell into. They seem not to want us to develop that market in a way that is good for the United Kingdom.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

A moment ago, the Prime Minister repeated without a hint of irony or comedy that she is encouraging the European Union to complete the single market in services because that is in our national interest. Will she explain to the House and to the country how it is not in our national interest to be a part of it?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman has said in the past that he has a different view on the result of the vote and of where the Government should be going in relation to membership of the European Union.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 8th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I think all of us and everybody in the country wants to unite behind the Government’s work to ensure that we get the best possible deal for the United Kingdom as we leave the European Union, and I believe that we can get a deal that will be in the interests of both the UK and the EU. I had hoped that I would be able to welcome the shadow Home Secretary to the Front Bench in time for the vote that is going to take place later tonight. Perhaps Labour Members are starting to realise that their only real headache is their leader.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister agree with the director general of the World Trade Organisation that if Britain were to leave the EU on WTO terms, it would cost £9 billion in lost trade each year?

[The Prime Minister]

What we want to do is to ensure that we negotiate a deal with the European Union that enables us to have the best possible deal in trading with and operating within the European Union single market in goods and services. I believe that is possible precisely because, as I have just said in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Karl MᶜCartney), such a deal would be good not just for us, but for the EU as well.

Informal European Council

Owen Smith Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What I have been clear about with all the European leaders I have spoken to is that what we want when we leave the European Union is a good free trade arrangement with the member states of the European Union, in the form of the European Union. That is what we want, and that is what we will be working for.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

The summit began with the German Chancellor admonishing the Prime Minister for the threat to undercut our European neighbours—the alternative economic model the Prime Minister talked about at Lancaster House. Could she confirm that she is still threatening to cut corporation tax in a race to the bottom, and could she tell us whether she is worried that the manner of the negotiations is damaging our reputation abroad?

[The Prime Minister]

What I set out in the Lancaster House speech were my 12 objectives for the negotiations. Within that was a new free trade agreement with the European Union and a belief that we have every opportunity and every possibility of getting the arrangement that we want for the future strength of the UK economy. What I also said very clearly was that we would not be wanting to sign up to a bad deal for the UK. I think the UK public want to hear from their Prime Minister that we are not willing to sign up to a bad deal, and will make every effort and expect to get the best deal possible for the United Kingdom.

Tunisia, and European Council

Owen Smith Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course there are, in part, some military answers to what is happening. We need to crush ISIL in Iraq and Syria, but military action alone will not be enough. As he says, we have to go after terrorist finance and the terrorist narrative. That narrative is shared not only by the terrorists but, sadly, by too many who stop short of terrorism but who buy into the idea of a caliphate or the idea that Christians and Muslims cannot live together. Just as we had to confront the ideology in the cold war, we have to do so again now. In the end, I think that we will win because our values of democracy, tolerance, the rule of law, freedom and free enterprise are better values. They offer young people far more hope than going off and being part of a death cult that subjugates women, murders homosexuals and creates murder and mayhem across the world.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

I should like to add my deep condolences to those of the Prime Minister and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) to all those who have been affected by what has happened in Tunisia, many of whom were Welsh. Will the Prime Minister join me in expressing our admiration for my constituent Matthew James? People will have read in the newspapers how he threw himself in the way of a bullet to shield his fiancée, Saera Wilson, in an extraordinary act of selfless bravery. May I urge the Prime Minister to do all he can to ensure that all the victims receive all the support that they need?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. We all read the moving story of what that brave and courageous young man did to save the life of his fiancée; I am sure that it will have moved the whole country. I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman the guarantee that we will do everything we can to help the victims and their families. There are people working round the clock in Tunisia and here in Britain to ensure that that happens, and we will keep that up.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

We have made it clear that the Scottish powers would kick in only after the next general election and they will, of course, have to be the subject of a manifesto commitment. However, Wales is not Scotland. We believe that the arrangements that we are putting in place are right for Wales. I would have hoped that the hon. Gentleman would support them.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

On devolution, in the last hour there has been an extremely important ruling by the Supreme Court. It found in favour of the Labour Welsh Government in their attempt to preserve an Agricultural Wages Board for Wales and to protect low-paid farm workers in Wales. Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to apologise for wasting court time and money on seeking unlawfully to get rid of an Agricultural Wages Board for Wales, and will he commend the Welsh Government on their actions?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right that the Supreme Court delivered a judgment this morning. We are still considering the consequences of that. Where a procedure exists and there is an issue of doubt, it is entirely right that we should go to the Supreme Court to have the position clarified, and the position has been clarified.

[Owen Smith]

The Secretary of State is trying to present this as a score draw. To be clear, he has lost 2-0. This is the second time he has referred Welsh legislation to the Supreme Court and the second time he has lost. This time he was trying to stop the Welsh Government trying to protect agricultural wages in Wales. I ask him again: will he apologise for wasting time? Will he agree with me that his interference and this ruling show that we definitely need Labour’s proposal of a reserved powers model for the Assembly in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

I do not apologise for taking into account the devolution settlement and seeking clarity where it is necessary. To repeat, we are considering the ramifications of the judgment and will come back to the House in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The energy sector is very important for Wales and the Government are investing heavily in energy, including giving support for the new nuclear power station at Wylfa Newydd. The market between this country and Europe is extremely important—a two-way flow—and our energy interventions will ensure that our energy sector is supported.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

We know that this Government are out of touch, but listening to the Secretary of State this morning I fear that he is completely out of touch with the views of Welsh business about the European Union. Has he spoken to Ford, GE, Hitachi, Citibank, BMW or Airbus, which are all companies that have expressed their concerns? If he has not, does he know how many jobs in Wales are reliant on our membership of the European Union?

[Mr Jones]

I speak regularly to Welsh businesses—I dare say more frequently than the hon. Gentleman does. What is absolutely clear is that although Welsh businesses value their engagement with Europe, they feel that there is too much regulation and too much meddlesome interference from the European Union. We need to strike a proper balance. That is why we intend to renegotiate our position with Europe and at the end of that process hold a referendum.

[Owen Smith]

I doubt that the Secretary of State is actively talking to those businesses, because when I talk to them, what I hear are their grave concerns about the uncertainty that he is creating. He did not answer the question. In truth, one in seven jobs in Wales is now reliant on EU trade. Does he not accept that the attitude of his Government and the attitude of a Secretary of State who has referred to Europe as “a basket case” is jeopardising those jobs, and does he not realise that it is only Labour that will secure them? That is why a Labour vote next week is a vote for jobs in Wales.

[Mr Jones]

What I recognise fully is that the Labour party is reluctant—in fact, it is refusing—to give the British people a vote on this important issue. So far as business is concerned, the hon. Gentleman ought to understand that 72% of companies interviewed in north America for the Ernst and Young attractiveness survey thought that reduced integration in the EU would make the UK more attractive as a foreign direct investment location. He does not understand that; we do, which is why we can and we will give the people of Wales and Britain a vote on their future in Europe.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend illustrates an important point, which is that patients on both sides of the border are frequently reliant on care provided on the other side of the border. He makes a sensible point, because it is clear that Knighton hospital will be put under pressure if the current arrangements in the health care system in Wales continue to prevail.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

The Tory war on Wales has reached a new low in this House today: four questions from compliant Tory Back Benchers, all suggesting that a higher proportion of Welsh patients are being treated in England when the reverse is the case. Would the Secretary of State like to correct the record and tell those Members the truth, which is that the proportion of Welsh patients being treated in England has fallen and the reverse proportion has risen?

[Mr Jones]

What I will say is that, in terms of cancer care, Welsh patients are increasingly dependent on English services and, to be frank, are seeking them out, so I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman raises that point.

[Owen Smith]

I am particularly surprised that the right hon. Gentleman should choose cancer as a topic of debate, because the truth is that, in cancer care, Wales is outperforming England. In fact, in the trusts of the hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), the numbers show that 81% of patients are meeting the 62-week target, which is worse than three quarters of all the trusts in Wales. We spend more on cancer in Wales and we have faster improving outcomes. This is a smear by a Secretary of State and a Tory party that used to speak for Wales.

[Mr Jones]

That is actually a smear from a Labour party which is in total dereliction of its duty to Welsh patients. Frankly, the Welsh Government cannot afford to be complacent when they have not met the urgent suspected cancer waiting time since 2008. Furthermore, there is no cancer drugs fund in Wales. Instead of reacting so badly to criticism, the hon. Gentleman might wish to criticise his own friends in the Welsh Government.