Northern Ireland Protocol

Owen Paterson Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con) [V]]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) on landing this debate at a very timely time. It is a really important debate that I hope the Government are listening to carefully. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd). I do not entirely agree with his analysis but I do admire his intentions.

I still go to Northern Ireland on a regular basis having been Secretary of State, and shadow Secretary of State before that. I am detecting real concern and a sense of bewilderment in Northern Ireland. Businesses are having trouble getting materials. Basic products are not available in the shops: not just food but simple gardening equipment and other elements of everyday life. My concern is that that sense of bewilderment is turning to anger. That is justified, because the people of Northern Ireland are in a different constitutional place owing to the protocol.

It is not just a Northern Ireland issue. I am the chairman of the Centre for Brexit Policy, which is an all-party think-tank—I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Between 2 and 4 July, we commissioned Savanta ComRes to do some national polling and the results are very interesting: 53% of UK adults say it is important that Northern Ireland remains part of UK; 50% say that the protocol is unfair to Northern Ireland and that it is treated differently from the rest of the UK; 57% say that the protocol is a threat to peace and stability in Northern Ireland; and 42% agree that by tying Northern Ireland to the EU single market rules, the protocol acts in way not to implement Brexit. The hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) should listen to that comment carefully.

All of that goes back to the issue of the border, which was always hugely exaggerated by those who wanted the UK to stay in the EU. In the last recorded total of all Northern Ireland’s sales, 68% were local, 17% went to Great Britain and only 6% went to the Republic of Ireland. Going the other way, the Republic of Ireland’s sales to Northern Ireland were only £2.6 billion in 2017—that is 0.16%, or one six-hundred-and-twenty-fifth of total EU exports. It is simply inconceivable that that trade could utterly pollute the single market’s integrity. That trade is being conducted by big international companies such as Diageo and Lactalis—highly competent, professional people who already dealt with the currency border, the excise duty border and the VAT border. The border was always massively exaggerated. There were always other solutions, and certainly better solutions than those we have in the protocol.

Let us look at what is happening. The permanent secretary of the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland said to the Stormont Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs that Northern Ireland’s population

“is under half a percent of that across the European Union, yet the documentary checks…represent one fifth of the equivalent documentation right across the EU.”

A monster has been created around a very limited problem. Everyone should listen carefully to the noble Lord Trimble, who won a Nobel prize and put his whole career on the line to work through the peace agreement that was signed as the Belfast agreement with John Hume. He has pointed out that Northern Ireland has 2.5 times more customs checks than Rotterdam. When President Biden was here recently, Lord Trimble made it clear in The Times that the Good Friday agreement is threatened by the protocol because the constitution has been changed and the vital principle of consent—the basis on which he got the Belfast agreement through—has been breached. It is quite clear that laws are now being imposed on citizens in Northern Ireland on which they have no say.

A couple of days ago, Lord Frost of Allenton, who has manfully tried to make the protocol work, reported to the House of Lords that 800 new pieces of legislation have been dumped on Northern Ireland from the EU. It did not have to be like this. Back in October 2018, I took Lord Trimble and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) to see Michel Barnier and Sabine Weyand. We explained that we would respect the single market. We said, “If we sell goods to the US market, we respect their regulations. If we are to sell into the EU’s single market as a third country, we would always respect the regulations.” That is the way forward. They listened carefully, but, sadly, that approach was not pursued by the then Government.

Lord Trimble helped to write an important paper on mutual enforcement, published recently by the Centre for Brexit Policy. It says, in simple terms, that under UK law, and justiciable in the UK courts, all exports into the EU will meet EU standards and vice versa. All the fuss about regulation would therefore apply only to the tiny number of exports. We are not going to see some Indonesian tyre manufacturer trying to smuggle containers of tyres through to west German car plants from Larne and out through Dublin—that is simply not going to happen. Many of these problems could be sorted out through the concept of mutual enforcement. I take my hat off to Lord Frost, who has really tried to make the protocol work, but the EU has been obtuse and pig-headed and rebuffed every attempt.

When something clearly does not work, is causing damage in Northern Ireland and, as the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) pointed out, is clearly a breach of the Acts of Union, we should recognise that, not fight it. We should not overrule the result of the EU referendum and adopt a whole lot of EU law just to sort out a tiny problem on the Northern Ireland-Republic of Ireland border. Mutual enforcement is the way ahead. Everybody in the debate should respect the views of a Nobel peace prize winner, and that is his solution. I would like to see the Government adopt it.

Draft Equine (Records, Identification and Movement) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Owen Paterson Excerpts

Monday 18th February 2019 General Committees

[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma.

This is not a registered interest, but I think it is appropriate that I declare that my wife is chairman of Aintree racecourse and a steward of the Jockey Club, as it is on the subject of thoroughbred racing that I would like to quickly touch.

The racing industry is our second-biggest sport: it turns over £3.5 billion, it employs about 17,500 people directly, £11.5 billion is bet on horses and just fewer than 6 million people attend racecourses. It is a massive industry with enormous consequences. Almost exactly a week after Brexit day, on 6 April, about 75,000 people will turn up at Aintree for the grand national, with 9 to 10 million watching it on ITV and about 600 million watching worldwide. It is important for this country that the grand national goes smoothly, and it is of particular interest to our Irish friends—I am sure you read the Racing Post, Mr Sharma—who have, I think, 47 entries this year.

As I understand it, in the case of the withdrawal agreement going through, the current tripartite agreement will carry on in the implementation period. That agreement has served the horse industry of the UK, the Republic of Ireland and France well for many years. Will the Minister clarify what will happen if there is an agreement? I am also particularly interested in what will happen if there is no agreement. As I understand it, we would become a third country and horses would be able to come into the country.

It is worth touching also on the breeding industry. Some 52% of Irish thoroughbred foals come to Great Britain and 50% of French thoroughbred exports come to the UK as well, so it is not just about racing. However, with the huge international focus on the national, I am particularly interested in what arrangements will be in place by then. I understand from the British Horseracing Authority that there have been very satisfactory discussions with DEFRA, and we had the announcement last week in an SI Committee from the junior Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Minister that proposals had been going through, but I would like to know how it will work for horses that come into the country for the race, almost certainly from Ireland. I know of only one French horse that might be running, Borice, and he will not be a problem because he is already being trained in the UK.

The tripartite agreement has worked well, effectively giving a derogation from the directives requiring inspection, a route plan and a passport—I understand there will be a replacement passport. Will we be using TRACES—the trade control and expert system—in future? That is the arrangement under which the tripartite agreement currently functions.

Lastly—I hope that I do not catch the Minister out with this—it is not only thoroughbreds that come over. The French have AQPS—autre que pur-sang—horses that mainly go jump racing, and it is also worth mentioning Arab horses, which come over in numbers for racing purposes and for breeding.

I thank the Minister for his explanation of the draft regulations. Will he explain where we will be on horse movements in the event that we do not have a deal and there is no time to immediately replace the tripartite agreement?

--- Later in debate ---

[David Rutley]

I will respond to the points that were made in that fascinating series of contributions, for which I thank hon. Members. The right hon. Member for Don Valley spoke with enthusiasm about her racecourse. Credit to Doncaster Rovers, who played incredibly well at the weekend, although they did not quite get the result they wanted.

The right hon. Lady made some important points about the number of SIs that we have to get through. To say that we are at the end is perhaps a bit optimistic, but we are at the beginning of the end. The end is in sight. The contribution that DEFRA officials have made has been extraordinary; they have worked phenomenally hard. Credit to the permanent secretary, whom the right hon. Lady was able to question. There has been a really amazing transformation in what DEFRA does, the number of people being brought on board and the number of projects that are taking place as we onshore our agriculture, fisheries and environment policies. It is an extraordinary endeavour, and I thank her for her comments.

I want to reassure the right hon. Lady, the hon. Member for Ipswich and others about what we are doing with vets and how we are making sure that we are ready for EU exit if there is no deal. We have been working very hard with the veterinary industry, the British Veterinary Association and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. The evidence that has been provided to the Migration Advisory Committee strongly supports the return of vets to the shortage occupation list. While the UK prepares to leave the EU, DEFRA is working closely with the Home Office to ensure that there is a long-term strategy for the veterinary workforce as part of the future immigration policy.

To try to take the pressure off our vets in the work they are doing in their official capacity, we are creating the new role of certification support officer, which is designed to provide administrative support to official veterinarians for the processing of export health certificates. That takes work away from the official vets, but the certification support officers will be under close supervision by vets.

A point was made about the number of official veterinarians. The APHA has been working very closely with the veterinary industry to ensure that sufficient OVs are available for certification on day one. The preparations are in good shape.

The hon. Member for Ipswich asked whether discussions are ongoing with Northern Ireland and Ireland. We are having a close discussion with all the devolved Administrations and the Republic about this and many other issues. He spoke about the cost to the industry that this will bring about. There will be changes in the costs associated with vets, but they are not related to the regulations. There are costs in the process. The processes will be designed simply. Our aim is to ensure that the processes enable this to take place effectively, given that the industry often transports animals to third countries already. This is just bringing the EU into line with that approach.

My hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall made a point about tagging. We are sympathetic to the issue that he raised, and we have had discussions with the sector to look at ways in which it can be facilitated. I will gladly meet him separately after this Committee or on another day so that we can talk about it further.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire characteristically made some probing technical points, to which I will endeavour to respond to assure him that the issues he raised are being addressed. He asked whether horses competing in the grand national will be able to return to the EU. I think many people in the country will be interested in that. The answer is yes, absolutely, assuming that the EU provides us with listed status. We understand that that process is moving along well. All equines returning to the EU will need to follow the same process, regardless of where they are going, because we will lose access to the tripartite agreement in the event of no deal.

My right hon. Friend asked whether the tripartite agreement would remain in place in the implementation period. Yes, it would. In a no-deal situation, there would be a process to enable French and Irish horses to enter the UK. Our imports policy will remain the same in principle on day one. Importers will need to pre-notify the APHA of their intention to travel to the UK, but no additional documentation or checks will be required.

[Mr Paterson]

I understand that it will be easy for horses to get into the country, but obviously—the breeding season started last week—they have to get back. As I understand it, they will get back, but they will probably have to go through a border inspection post. I think that would be Dún Laoghaire in Ireland’s case, and possibly Larne in the case of Northern Ireland. Will the Minister confirm that it will be easy to take horses back to their home country?

[David Rutley]

Yes, I can confirm that. The processes will be different, but they will be simple. Yes, horses will have to go through a border inspection post.

Finally, my right hon. Friend asked what the export process for AQPS—French non-thoroughbred horses—would look like. The process for export will not differ depending on which EU country an equine is destined for. That means horses moving to France and Ireland will have to follow the same processes as all other equines, which I referred to earlier. Again, that is because we will lose access to the tripartite agreement in the event of no deal. As I said, we will not alter our import policy on day one, so French horses will be able to enter the UK, following the procedures as they are now.

I thank Committee members for their contributions. It is important to ensure the continued operability of retained legislation so UK equines can continue to move into and through the European Union following the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. We cannot be left in a situation where our horses may be held up at the border or prevented from moving into the EU. I trust that Members agree about the importance of ensuring that the draft regulations find passage through Parliament, and I once again commend them to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Equine (Records, Identification and Movement) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Exiting the EU: Costs

Owen Paterson Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

I refer the right hon. Lady to the Prime Minister’s Florence speech, in which she laid out the commitments that we want to continue to honour, in the spirit of our future partnership, after we have left the European Union. The right hon. Lady has to be aware that this is part of a discussion that is also about our future relationship, and all those elements are contingent on securing our future relationship, as the Prime Minister laid out in her Florence speech. It would be wrong at this stage—from the point of view of not only the negotiations, but transparency to the public—to lay out something before it is fully agreed. That would not be helpful.

[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)]

To cheer up the miseries on the Opposition Benches, perhaps they would like to look at the prospective budget published by Economists for Free Trade in the week before the Budget. It is a really exciting prospectus that says that our economy will grow at 3% a year by 2025, providing an infrastructure surplus of £60 billion, which easily covers the £18.2 billion a year for the famous £350 million. But that is contingent on reciprocal free trade with zero tariffs, so will my right hon. Friend guarantee that there will be no legally binding commitment to spend money until our partners agree to a serious free trade deal that is based on reciprocal free trade and zero tariffs?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I fear that my right hon. Friend is over-optimistic if he thinks we can stop Opposition Members from being miserable. We tried that over four days of Budget debate, but we have been unsuccessful so far. He is absolutely right to talk about the benefits of free trade for the British economy—I completely agree with him. We are seeking a good deal that benefits the UK in the long term.