Compulsory Jobs Guarantee

Debate between Oliver Heald and Sheila Gilmore

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

In all the debates on this issue, sweeping statements are made about how Labour Governments have higher unemployment at the end of their term than, it is implied, Tory Governments do. The Tory Government of 1979 to 1997 inherited an unemployment rate of 5.2% and left an unemployment rate of 7.4%, and in 13 out of 18 years unemployment was over 10%. We really should not take lessons from a party that produced those kinds of results during one of its longest periods in government in recent years.

I was slightly wrong when I intervened on the hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams). Unemployment rose slightly between 1997 and 2010, in the midst of a world economic recession—it was 0.4% higher in 2010 than it was in 1997, and that is after a major recession. Between 1945 and 1951 unemployment fell, so I hope we will hear slightly less of that generalisation.

One of the other generalisations made by the Secretary of State was meant to frighten people outside this place with the notion that Labour creates a situation in which nobody works. He said that under Labour 20% of households had never worked. That is one in five of all households. If someone heard that, they would think it shocking and dreadful, but what he did not say was that 48% of those—nearly half—were students who had never worked because they were students, 14% were carers, 18% were sick or disabled and only 10% were unemployed.

The number of workless households has fallen slightly under this Government, but it has gone back to where it was in 2008. After the recession, there has finally been a slight fall in the number of households not in work, but, again, many are not in work because of caring responsibilities, because they have children or because they have taken early retirement. We must be realistic about the figures.

Conservative Members always throw figures at us to show how unemployment has fallen in our constituencies, but they always use the claimant count. The gap between the claimant count and the unemployment rate has been very high under this Government and that is something that we must consider. What is happening to those people who are unemployed but not receiving any benefit? Who are they, what is happening to them and how are they living? Are they getting any of the help that we are so often told about and that they are supposed to be given? I know that many of those people are living on much reduced incomes and many are not getting benefits, either because they have lost them in some way or because they have a partner in what might be only part-time work.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

Listening to the hon. Lady is reminding me of Nicola Sturgeon’s speech. She is arguing for more borrowing, more spending and more tax, so is the hon. Lady buying into the SNP agenda?

[Sheila Gilmore]

We say that there is a different way to tackle the budget deficit. We said that we would do it differently in 2010. Of course, the Conservatives went to the electorate and said that they knew the answer and would eliminate the deficit in five years. They set about trying to do that and have manifestly failed. We said that we wanted to stimulate the economy rather than depress it as they did month after month in their first three years when growth fell. Despite all the measures in the so-called emergency Budget, the Conservative party has not achieved what it said it would.

We always have an argument about work experience, and the counterpoint to anything we propose is that the work experience scheme is, to use the words of the Secretary of State, unbelievably successful. As he constantly says, half the people who go through the work experience scheme get a job. What he did not say is that nearly half those who did not go through work experience in a matched cohort, according to the DWP’s own research, did not get a job. Being in the work experience programme did have an effect, but it was not the type of effect the Government suggest.

After 21 weeks, 50% of those who had been through work experience were back on benefits, but those who did not go through the scheme did not do much worse. There is no point in exaggerating these schemes. A real and proper job, which involves real training and will get people into permanent employment, is worth much more than a short-term work experience scheme, which is not to say that there should not be work experience. We are proposing that particularly for young people because they need it.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Oliver Heald and Sheila Gilmore

Monday 4th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Heald]

I am a member of one, and membership is a good way of trying to convey knowledge about credit unions. I pay tribute to the all-party group on credit unions, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds). We need to do more to increase the amount of credit that is available on reasonable terms.

I am a member of the all-party group on financial education for young people, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson). The move to teach children the basics of budgeting from quite an early age is long overdue. In households that are chaotic and at the bottom of the economic pile there is very little understanding of basic budgeting, which we must resolve.

Finally, I want to support the point about advice. In the past, I have given free legal advice and dealt with welfare rights. I have experience of the people the hon. Member for Makerfield described, who come to see us carrying bags of documents from companies and unpaid invoices. The people who sit down with them, go through everything carefully and present their case to creditors do a marvellous job. The other day, I went to the Shelter facility in Hatfield, which offers debt advice in that part of Hertfordshire. Someone there had been working on debt advice for 29 years and she had lots of letters on the wall from people saying how grateful they were to her for trying to sort things out for them. We must certainly support debt advice, but we need to do other things in relation to education and credit unions. I would like more regulation in this field and, possibly, a cap.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Unfortunately, it seems that debates on this subject are beginning to follow a pattern: we all agree that high-cost lending is terrible and a scourge of many of our communities and that we would like something to be done about it, but the problem arises in agreeing to act. In February’s Back-Bench debate, the teeth were drawn from the motion proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). The amendment agreed by the majority of Members of the two Government parties removed any impetus for immediate action or any agreement that the regulator should consider doing something. I see exactly the same pattern beginning to emerge. We are told that we all agree that high-cost lending is bad, but when Opposition Members want something to be done about it we are accused of breaching the consensus. In the words of the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), we are the ones who are being political.