Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services

Debate between Norman Lamb and Barry Sheerman

Monday 2nd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point. There is a lot of co-ordination between the two Departments. Indeed, he may be aware of a new taskforce set up by the Deputy Prime Minister to co-ordinate Departments’ work on mental health. There is a plan to roll out the liaison and diversion service nationally by 2017. No other country in the world is doing this on such an industrial scale, in order to ensure that someone who turns up at a police station or a court with an identifiable mental health problem gets referred for treatment. That is really exciting.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister is right about this. In the 10 years for which I chaired the Education Committee, I knew that child mental health services were not as good as they could have been. We now have a crisis. In the past, we patched things together with a partnership among children’s services, the local authority, mental health services in hospitals, and GPs. That partnership has been broken, mainly by the reforms that the coalition Government have introduced in commissioning and the fragmentation of so much else. The earlier a child is diagnosed and treated with therapeutic help, the better. At the moment, that is not happening. This is not just about beds; it is also about early intervention.

[Norman Lamb]

I totally agree. However, I caution the Opposition about going around declaring a crisis every second day, because the picture is very varied around the country. I agree with the hon. Gentleman about any unacceptable things that are happening. He makes a very good point about co-ordinating services much better. Indeed, a central focus of the children’s mental health taskforce is to try to ensure that we get much better, co-ordinated commissioning of care.

Care Home Top-up Fees

Debate between Norman Lamb and Barry Sheerman

Tuesday 22nd July 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Lamb)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow) on securing the debate. It would be wrong for the debate to be an exclusively Liberal Democrat affair, so I am delighted to see the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) in his place. This debate is, in some ways, a unique event.

My right hon. Friend raises an important issue. He provided two case studies, which almost smack of exploitation of vulnerable older people. The ratcheting up by a care home of the top-up fee for someone in the latter stages of their life who suffers from dementia is completely unacceptable exploitation of that individual, and it should be condemned.

Equally, the idea that it is suitable or appropriate to shove someone into a home far away from London but a long way from where she wants to be goes against the central principle of the Care Act 2014: the individual’s well-being. I know that my right hon. Friend is committed to upholding that principle. The issue that he raises is of real importance, and the findings of the local government ombudsman’s report from last year, to which he referred, are of real concern.

People should have a choice over the establishment in which they receive care and support. That establishment will, after all, become their home. Where the local authority is involved, it has a responsibility to ensure that the establishment meets the person’s needs without costing more than it needs to. However, another important principle, which we must respect, is that people or their loved ones should have the choice to use their own resources as they see fit. If by doing so they can improve their surroundings by having a bigger room or a better view, they should have that choice. I emphasise that that must be a positive choice on the individual’s part—something that they understand the costs and consequences of, never something that they feel pushed into.

[Mr Sheerman]

Will the Minister give way?

[Norman Lamb]

Very briefly.

[Mr Sheerman]

The right hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow) put his finger on it when he talked about secrecy. There are many excellent people in this field doing a fantastic job—my mother-in-law is in a care situation—but a certain percentage of people do not know what is going on. They need to know, and it should be in the public domain.

[Norman Lamb]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. He will find that the Care Act has a much greater focus on transparency, and it strengthens the legal obligation by providing that personal budgets must reflect the cost to the local authority of meeting the adult’s needs. That is a legal requirement in the Care Act, whereas previously it had been guidance.

Care Homes

Debate between Norman Lamb and Barry Sheerman

Thursday 1st May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your gentle guidance. I will do my best.

The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly important point. One cannot change the culture of an organisation overnight. The Care Quality Commission was a dysfunctional organisation, but it now has really good leadership in the form of David Behan and its chairman, David Prior. They understand the importance of changing the culture and ensuring that they are always the champion of the patient.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I say to the Minister and all colleagues in the House that this is not good enough. It is disgraceful. We had it before and we had similar answers. We have to stop this. There are wonderful carers out there—most carers are wonderful—but they need support, good skills training and to be paid properly. Surely we ought to have a charter in every home that says, “These are your rights. Don’t let them be infringed. They are clear.” Every good hotel and business has such a charter hanging up where everyone can see it. Can we not have that tomorrow?

[Norman Lamb]

Many care homes are signing up to exactly those standards. The more that happens, the more we should applaud and encourage it. The hon. Gentleman is right that we should all be completely intolerant of such abuse and neglect. It is a challenge for the whole of society. Whichever Government are in power need to hold the line of being absolutely intolerant of any failures of care and must demonstrate that when they happen, there are real consequences that will hold people to account.

Winterbourne View

Debate between Norman Lamb and Barry Sheerman

Monday 10th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

I commend my right hon. Friend for the work he did on this subject. When I started this job, it struck me that there was an absence of effective corporate accountability in the law and that that had to be addressed. I was determined to ensure that the Government response addressed that issue head on. In doing that, we need to look both at the regulatory framework—issues such as whether there could be a fit-and-proper persons test for those on the boards of companies—and at the criminal law. It is striking that in the Winterbourne View case the authorities determined that it was not possible, under existing law, to bring prosecutions. I am absolutely clear, however, that responsibility rests at the top of the company for facilitating this sort of outrage. That is why the law needs to change. We need to look both at criminal offences and the regulatory framework.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I press the Minister on one aspect? Will he look much more closely at the role of the third sector, particularly charities, in providing services? Hollybank school and community in Mirfield in west Yorkshire, close to my constituency, does a brilliant job. Does he recognise that, in considering the report, it is the quality of management that one worries about and the fact that the most vulnerable people in our society are so often looked after by poorly trained people on the minimum wage working 12-hour shifts? That is often at the heart of the problem.

[Norman Lamb]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question and completely agree that we have to address the issue of skills. It is worth pointing out that there are some fantastic providers in the voluntary sector, and in the private sector as well. We should applaud that and recognise that there are many well trained people on low wages providing a fantastic quality of care, but there are also places where that is not the case. That needs to be addressed.

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman that we should look closely at the voluntary or not-for-profit sector. I had a meeting recently with the head of Shared Lives, an organisation that places people with learning disabilities into people’s homes. Surprise, surprise—when people are treated with dignity and treated as human beings, their behaviour improves and sometimes all the complex problems subside. There is an awful lot we can do. In the new year I will bring together the providers of the best care available so that we can learn the lessons from them.

Winterbourne View

Debate between Norman Lamb and Barry Sheerman

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

My hon. Friend raises extremely important points. First, we must ensure that the alerting system works effectively. We are putting safeguarding boards on a statutory basis. That is important and means that all key players will have a part in ensuring that adults in vulnerable situations are kept safe. We must ensure that alerts always work effectively in the future.

My hon. Friend’s point about individuals being placed a long distance away from home is of absolute concern. It strikes me that if someone is placed far away from their community, in what is effectively a closed setting, conditions are created for potential abuse to take place. That has to stop.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister agree that there can be no excuse for abuse in any setting at any time? Is there not a profound problem that many of our most vulnerable citizens up and down the country are looked after by people who are poorly trained, poorly qualified and paid the minimum wage for 12-hour shifts? Is that the underlying root of this problem?

[Norman Lamb]

First, it is important to make it clear that many highly dedicated care workers provide fantastic quality care for elderly people and other adults in vulnerable situations. However, the hon. Gentleman is right to address the fact that we need to raise standards across the board. We are working with Skills for Care to ensure there is a code of practice to implement proper standards, and that minimum training standards apply across the sector. We must also ensure that we keep people in good health and well-being in their own homes as much as possible, reducing the number of people who go into care and nursing homes. That will make it possible to spend more on those people who do need to go into a home, and ensure that standards are maintained at the right level.